International Trade committee  Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I'll try to observe your admonition. I'm duly warned. SNC-Lavalin, as many people know, is one of the world's largest engineering companies. We work in 100 countries right now, and probably 125 in the last five years. Last year we did $6.1 billion worth of business.

Foreign Affairs committee  And we're very grateful for your support.

Foreign Affairs committee  Following from what you said, the difference between an ombudsman that does a common sense, if you want.... It's not based on a Canadian law, but on a Canadian policy to look at Canadian values and international obligations. The difference between that and trying to enforce a Canadian law extraterritorially on a Canadian business operating in a foreign jurisdiction, where it has its own laws and customs and traditions, as you want, and its own systems--as we've heard that Mexico has, and Peru, which is another country where many investors in the mining sector there are Canadians--yes, it raises uncertainty.

Foreign Affairs committee  No, I didn't.

Foreign Affairs committee  To the extent that it exists in the existing government policy, yes, but not in the framework of this bill with its legal framework and--

Foreign Affairs committee  Yes, an ombudsman having a practical process that didn't involve a sequence of legal appeals and sanctions but as a common-sense approach. Sure.

Foreign Affairs committee  Thank you. I was going to ask to clarify. I disagree with my colleague. I don't laugh at him. I certainly didn't talk about divestment. I talked about not becoming involved in a project in the first place that was subject to controversy and investigation. That's all.

Foreign Affairs committee  Certainly it was a consultation, and I think it was a good one. It was marked by cooperation between business and NGOs. On this bill, I don't think there's been that level of cooperation. It seems to me that for one reason or another, there's a kind of polarization that's gone on between the NGO community, if you want, and the business community, which is--and Corporate Knights may be an exception to this--pretty strongly opposed.

Foreign Affairs committee  Who can speculate about how many complaints there'll be? Our concern is that this is an additional layer on top of what Mr. Rae has said is a system that is already in place. There are international bodies as well.

Foreign Affairs committee  Yes, that's right. That's the difference in this case. It's a burdensome and unnecessary legal and sanctions process that is being put in place. If you are a company that's going to develop a project in a difficult part of the world, you minimize your risk. This raises the level of uncertainty, so you go elsewhere.

Foreign Affairs committee  No, and my understanding is that despite the long industry and NGO consultation that led to the CSR counsellor policy of the government, there was no consultation in advance of this bill. Occasionally we see a complaint on the Internet that we've never heard of, let alone responded to.

Foreign Affairs committee  When we invest, as I tried to say, it's usually a fairly small investment. The Madagascar case, Ambatovy, is a good case of mine. We're a five-percent investor there, and it's a good project for us, a very rich deposit in a country that's welcomed that investment, and it aligns our interests with the interests of Sherritt, which is our Canadian client, and the other Japanese and Korean partners in the investment.

Foreign Affairs committee  You're suggesting that if there were a past record of abuse EDC wouldn't deal with them. I suspect that's probably true.

Foreign Affairs committee  I guess the scenario one can see might involve a company with a perfectly good reputation, like most Canadian companies--I don't think there's any argument about that. A project begins somewhere in the world--say, Madagascar--and it's proceeding and an allegation is raised. The consequence of that allegation down the road, if it were proven, would mean the withdrawal of EDC support, according to this bill.

Foreign Affairs committee  Then what's the point of Bill C-300 if it's already done?