Finance committee  The profile, if we're looking at the $20 billion figure that we used earlier on—

Finance committee  The Retail Council was taken aback specifically because the Minister of Finance asked a Senate committee to look into the difference in pricing and cross-border shopping. We were expecting the Senate committee to present its final report and recommendations before anything would have been changed.

Finance committee  Thank you for clarifying. There are two answers to that question. One, we were somewhat relieved. Two, there was a concern. It has become a very popular issue, and there's a concern because most retailers believe it doesn't matter how much people spend on same-day trips; rarely are consumers stopped and asked to pay duties or taxes.

Finance committee  I don't think people were arguing that either. It's important to understand the position of the council. It's not a question of building walls so that consumers can't shop where they want and when they want. It's a question of making sure there is a level playing field. All we are suggesting, sir, is that the government can play an important role in looking at, for example, import duties or import tariffs on finished goods.

Finance committee  Absolutely.

Finance committee  I would suggest that it goes further than conceptually supporting free trade.

Finance committee  Yes, absolutely. Most consumers are very much aware that the focus is on security and not on collecting duties or taxes. The effect, unfortunately, is that we are estimating, as the Bank of Montreal has estimated, over $20 billion spent in the United States. I think we can all do the math and understand how much tax is not collected in this country and the impact it has on communities, on businesses, and on workers.

Finance committee  Absolutely, we did, yes.

Finance committee  I think the point, though, is that retailers and importers in Canada who are large employers are simply saying that this is the reality. We will never stop consumers from shopping where they want, when they want, but we need to make sure that we try to develop a level playing field.

Finance committee  Absolutely.

Finance committee  I think the chair would prefer I not go there.

Finance committee  Yes, and I would ask why the government, and in fact the Senate committee looking at this issue, are not calling multinational vendors to the table. There is such a thing as country pricing. There are Canadian manufacturers selling baggies and wrapping paper to U.S. retailers at 30% less than what they're charging their retailers in Canada.

Finance committee  We have done so in both English and French.

Finance committee  I'll use both words and gestures. It has increased substantially.

Finance committee  The brief gives you an in-depth explanation. Most consumers are much more value-conscious now than they've ever been. They are price-conscious. A large portion of the population now lives within an hour of the border. We've seen urban growth. It has brought more and more people closer to our U.S. neighbour, so it makes it easier, in fact, to cross and to shop.