Transport committee  We mustn't, however, lose sight of the fact that in an aging society, we do have an increasing population without access to the private car. With the decline of the family, the extended family as a unit, many people can no longer depend on immediate relatives to provide them with transportation as they age.

Transport committee  I'll give you some examples. We have in Toronto a city that has had a subway system for 57 years. Not only has it built up the ability to handle the maintenance and even the expansion of that subway system through its own expertise, but it is also self-regulating with respect to safety inspections.

Transport committee  I think perhaps that is a problem that is self-correcting. If people desert the toll bridge to use the Mercier Bridge or the Jacques Cartier Bridge and those bridges become very congested, then there will be more incentive for people to pay the toll. This is what we are seeing in Toronto, where Highway 401 is still there and it's still free, but people can choose whether they will pay the toll and drive on the alternative route.

Transport committee  Well, obviously you cannot deliver high-capacity rapid transit at all hours of the day, so you cannot fully meet that market with only one mode. Therefore, it's best to try to find a multimodal solution. In eastern Ontario, there's an interesting approach being taken by the town of Casselman.

Transport committee  No, no.

Transport committee  You must provide service for the people who will be working at unusual hours and the people who have to work at different hours, such as building cleaners.

Transport committee  For many smaller communities, the transit infrastructure may in fact be buying a bus. For example, we had a presentation at the session that I mentioned, organized at the Chateau Laurier last year by CUTA, from King County transit in Nova Scotia. They are providing a transit service that is almost entirely rural.

Transport committee  Can I respond in English? It is easier for me. I think that in general road pricing is an important tool. It won't be appropriate in all cases, but particularly where you're talking about a large new piece of infrastructure.... I remember that in 1967 the La Fontaine tunnel in Montreal was built and was established as a toll tunnel for a considerable number of years.

Transport committee  Yes, and it's not only for the Champlain Bridge. We know that it's not only for highway bridges all over Quebec, which have been scrutinized closely, but for bridges in the rest of Canada as well.

Transport committee  I don't want to suggest that the federal government hasn't been heavily involved in funding many municipal transit projects; they have. But in general, they've been done as one-off infrastructure projects rather than having any overall coherent policy. What I've tried to touch on in my presentation are areas that I believe are areas of federal expertise and jurisdiction that the provinces and the municipalities can't afford to create for themselves or areas that are in fact federal responsibilities such as taxation policies.

Transport committee  I was involved in consultation at the provincial level with the Province of Ontario on the mechanisms for dividing up the provincial gas tax rebates, and my feeling and impression was that this exception that you describe was really a question of fairness--not giving up on the policy that the gas tax was intended to pay for transit, but just to say that if this rule were applied without exception, it would, as you say, be unfair to the smaller communities.

Transport committee  Yes, I think so. In order to manage the flows of people, you really have to do that. You have to manage it; you have to have standards. For 30 years I worked in the telecommunications industry, where I was involved in developing the flow of data on the world's telecommunications networks.

Transport committee  Thank you, Chair. I understand that I'm to speak for up to about half an hour and deal with questions after that. Is that a reasonable amount of time? Or would you prefer that I try to make it a bit shorter?

Transport committee  Oh, it's 10 minutes.

Transport committee  Very good. My name is David Jeanes. I'm president of Transport Action Canada, which used to be Transport 2000, a non-profit organization advocating for better public transportation. We've been around since 1976. We're also a registered charity. We strongly support the interest in a national transit policy.