Finance committee  Yes. I think we're hoping that this new FDI agency will actually be quite small to start with, just to get the DNA of the hard-core marketing, if you will, to figure out where to target, which companies, and for those 45 companies on the IT side, to figure out who they are, how we go after them, and how we put a package together.

Finance committee  Sure. To the point of it being on the taxpayers' back, first of all, we have a $500-billion infrastructure gap, and as for what we're seeing with the first nations, at least $30 billion to $35 billion is on that front. The question we have is how we are possibly going to fund that.

Finance committee  Again, I think the win-win, if you will, is being able to identify and structure these projects—which we are 100% convinced are there because of this $500-billion gap—so that we get more of what we call “bankable” projects. That probably doesn't sound very good politically, but that's what we call them.

Finance committee  Sure. I fully agree. I think again the idea is that the ideas come from the municipalities and the provinces, and not just from the federal government putting them through. but they're going to get funded in this infrastructure bank only if there is commercial viability, as you were saying.

Finance committee  We definitely think that's an important category for the reasons you mention. It isn't just because doing renewables is a good thing; it's actually because doing them is profitable and drives productivity benefits. For the electricity grids, we're looking at clean tech in innovation.

Finance committee  You are. By the way, we heard that also from some of the round tables we did with energy companies. A lot of people think that energy companies don't want this. It's interesting—the ones we saw in Canada do. They're saying there's an opportunity for them to do more on clean tech on the R and D and the business-building sides.

Finance committee  Mr. Chairman, I'm not going to go to that place, because I think you can decide how you feel. All we're doing is trying to come up with the ideas we think will move the dial. We are not wedded to any particular forum. We have a lot of debate in council, by the way, on the different pieces.

Finance committee  Yes. I still think the government should have the capacity, if it wants to, for social policy issues to invest in that type of infrastructure that doesn't have a return. I don't know of any country in the world that doesn't do that. All we're saying is there's not enough capital, unless you want to run massive deficits, and if we played that out, it would add 15% to the deficit level, which is unsustainable.

Finance committee  I fully agree with you on diversification. I think it's good. It's in all our interests that the Canadian pension funds are investing overseas. The only thing I would say, though, is that there is a humongous oversupply of long-term capital versus infrastructure projects. Every pension fund in Canada, in the United States, in Japan, and in Europe would love to invest more in infrastructure.

Finance committee  Yes, we are. We're trying, Mr. Chairman, and you should tell us whether we're doing so adequately. One of the things we've been doing is regional round tables. They've been exactly instructive, as you've said. The first one we did was in eastern Canada, in Halifax. I know that's not in Prince Edward Island.

Finance committee  We were given a blue sky approach. When Minister Morneau called, I had never met him before. I didn't know him. He basically said, “Your job is to come up with bold ideas that can help jolt growth.” Sometimes we got into things such as “Well, that's an interprovincial issue”, or “What is the Department of Finance going to think about this?”

Finance committee  I don't know if you get it—

Finance committee  Thank you. Yes, we have a similar view to yours. This declining workforce worries us, because, again, it's happening so quickly. My personal view is that for Japan it's too late; they've gone beyond the curve. The amount of immigration they would require to do it would be too significant to be practical in the time frame, so I think there's an urgency to it.

Finance committee  I think one way we could see it working is by, first, having a targeted set of types of companies or investments that we want. For example, I think we would like to have more people—and I'll use Thomson Reuters as a recent example—in the information technology area. It's going to help us with our innovation, and my view is that there are probably 45 companies out there we would love to attract.

Finance committee  I'd say a couple of things. First of all, I don't think you'll see too many private equity players investing in long-term infrastructure. The returns are too.... They get nervous after five years, and I think these projects, as you said, are more 30-year events. I don't think you'll see the likes of the Blackstones and the Bain Capital people.