Public Accounts committee  I personally love the example of ISO. I guess some of our people who are closer to it find that there are flaws in that comparison, but certainly ISO resonates with me. In a sense, as I understand the processes, we are the ones doing the certification, whether for Air Canada, WestJet, or Air Transat.

Public Accounts committee  I think we have appropriate resources to assume our responsibilities. There's never enough money. But when we've identified problems and we've been given proper resources, the issue for us—and we have to answer that question all the time—is whether we are making the best use of the resources we have.

Public Accounts committee  In a very simplistic way, instead of our kicking every tire, we want to make sure that the airlines themselves kick their own tires. And we will make sure they do. Every company has an accountable executive. It comes from the top—making sure that everybody in the organization is sensitized.

Public Accounts committee  That is correct.

Public Accounts committee  In my introductory remarks I talked about the limitations of the traditional method. If we're kicking the tires, as soon as we turn our back, human nature being what it is, nothing will happen once the inspector is gone. If you make the management responsible for it, they'll make sure that things are done properly.

Public Accounts committee  We amended the Aeronautics Act a couple of years ago, and we can now impose fines that are much steeper than.... Sorry, I'm informed that it's not yet amended. We're trying to do that now. In my mind, it's been there for so long that I feel it's already been done.

Public Accounts committee  The current situation now is in addition to the base budget that Mr. Preuss has. In recent years, I've authorized an additional $9.8 million. But where does the money come from? It actually comes from other programs, and we have sources of revenue as well. Over time, as we implement SMS, I'm hoping I can reallocate some of that money to either rail safety or other areas.

Public Accounts committee  Maybe Madam Fraser wants to comment on that. We accept the findings, but I don't think the Auditor General is suggesting that this is widespread and that this is the rule rather than the exception. There are cases, indeed, and I don't contest it, in which some indicators were unique to a particular region, but I don't think the suggestion is that this is a widespread situation.

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Preuss may want to comment on that.

Public Accounts committee  I accept these comments, but I do not believe we said additional indicators were inappropriate. We are dealing with very well trained inspectors who have a great deal of experience. Some were recruited from within the private sector. If additional observations come up, above and beyond the criteria, we accept them, but that does not mean the criteria were ineffective, contradictory and all aimed at ensuring greater security.

Public Accounts committee  I accept the findings and the recommendations, and we are acting on that. I'm not going to say here that I don't take that seriously, but I think we need to be cautious about any suggestions that we've proceeded with SMS in a cavalier way. This is well documented here. We announced our intention in 1999 and waited until 2005 to introduce regulations.

Public Accounts committee  The quick answer is that the Auditor General has identified 8%. I will only qualify this by saying....

Public Accounts committee  I will try to answer in the aggregate, as you said, and then my colleagues can elaborate. Because it is truly a second layer, it is true, we acknowledge, that there was no formal assessment of risk. You used the word “formal”. It doesn't mean that we did not assess the risk, but we did not document it properly.

Public Accounts committee  I will answer that. Recently, Treasury Board has encouraged us to completely rethink our Program Activity Architecture. Our department, which is rather large, had 184 programs. We did a major housecleaning and managed to reduced that number to 65. Now in terms of managing the programs, we have achieved much greater clarity on who is responsible for what.

Public Accounts committee  They're well on their way. Mr. Preuss is too humble to say this, but we are truly world leaders. We're not only recognized by the ICAO; we're recognized by many countries that actually come here by the busload to get presentations on how we do things. We have an incredible partnership with China, for example, which has been here repeatedly.