Canadian Heritage committee  We're talking about $14 to $26, but in 2011 the numbers increased significantly, leaving schools and universities with very little recourse in order to push back and to find a helpful place where the costs they were proposing would work for universities and colleges. I should add that the copyright compliance officers at universities are going to need to be there whether they have an Access Copyright licence or whether they follow fair dealing.

Canadian Heritage committee  We did. We certainly did, within libraries and in other places.

Canadian Heritage committee  It has probably increased since 2012.

Canadian Heritage committee  We do.

Canadian Heritage committee  Well, I think it's the question of what the market will hold. Copibec has a licence that is at $13 and something; I don't know exactly what it was. At the time that it was last signed, the Quebec institutions agreed that it was a fair price. At that time, in front of the rest of Canada, the number facing them was $26 for a licence.

Canadian Heritage committee  Mr. Aitchison, fair dealing is a very common element of copyright regimes across the world, and the line as to whether it's 10% of a book or 20% of a book changes and so on and so forth. In many cases, the allowance is much higher. It is to balance the users' rights and the creators' rights.

Canadian Heritage committee  Thank you very much for the question, Ms. Dabrusin. I think the upside is that a fair dealing exception in education—as it's included in satire, as it's also included for research purposes—is a proper element for a fair balance of materials, really, and it gives students, the public and educational institutions the ability to use material and parts of material in order to educate—

Canadian Heritage committee  What you can do is print a portion of a work and share it with students without paying for it.

Canadian Heritage committee  Thank you, Mr. Champoux. Yes, it's exactly that. The universities pay for the copyright in a variety of ways [Technical difficulty—Editor] and in a variety of ways that are legal, that are in the Copyright Act and that have been supported by the Supreme Court of Canada. It's similar to paying for some platforms, but then not downloading or taking songs illegally.

Canadian Heritage committee  In response, we absolutely value creators. The universities themselves are full of creators. They create the audience, they create the students, and they stimulate the future creators. Universities and creators are one and the same. This is a legal question around a collective society.

Canadian Heritage committee  Thanks for the question and the opportunity, Ms. McPherson. What I would say to it is that the universities are and have been following the law as it has been applied in the Copyright Act, and as the Supreme Court has upheld through five rulings. They're not cheating. They're not “scavenging”, as some of the language that has come out says.

Canadian Heritage committee  Thanks very much, Chair and committee members, for the invitation to appear on behalf of Universities Canada. I'd like to acknowledge the Algonquin nation, from whose traditional unceded territory I'm speaking today. Universities Canada represents 96 universities whose teaching, research and learning mission is fundamental to preparing students with the skills they need to participate and compete in our economy.