Science and Research committee  Aside from the known malfeasance by Chinese intelligence actors with regard to institutions, such as the complete data exfiltration of the Australian National University, we also had the really comprehensive report by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, which was the first report to flag these problematic collaborations and which at the time, of 2,500 problematic collaborations over 10 years, flagged 300 of them in Canada.

Science and Research committee  Well, I would say that we are recently aware of public debate about a certain individual whose report became quite prominent, who has had a least a dozen trips to China and who has referred to a major Chinese university as that individual's second home. Some of that individual's children have studied in China.

Science and Research committee  Mr. Chair, thank you for the invitation. I will deliver my remarks in English, but will be happy to answer your questions in the two official languages. I will skip over an introduction that lays out the infiltration and co-optation of Canadian research by Chinese defence intelligence, national security and dual-use technology entities, but rest assured that the public record shows that it is deep and vast.

Public Safety committee  In my opinion, there should be basically two types of complaints: those for CBSA detentions and those for the land border. At the maritime border, there are very few interactions. When arriving in the country by plane, and you are neither Canadian nor American, you have to fill out an electronic travel authorization.

Public Safety committee  As you know, at RMC I'm not just a professor. I also happen to be a civil servant. For the task that I currently have for National Defence, I have a small budget. I have a small staff. When you want to change your staff or you want to change your budget, there's a proper business process.

Public Safety committee  The more reasons you provide or the more inquiries you're going to get, the more strain you're also going to provide on the agencies. Ultimately, this is for the government of the day to figure out. We probably need to have a proper assessment process. For instance, one thing that's missing in this country is regular reviews of legislation like this.

Public Safety committee  I'll need to think about that and give you a written response. The distinction is important, and then of course to avoid any asymmetry across the country in the treatment of sworn members is also critical so that we have one systematic process and the proper triage. Lots of provinces do the triaging, so this is not rocket science.

Public Safety committee  It's a super question. It's probably a question that requires resolution more in regulation and in policy than in legislation. However, the issue the public is going to have is that they don't know what all these different agencies are. They don't know if they can make a complaint to the local police service.

Public Safety committee  I think it would be a mistake to think about this as additive. The interactions that CBSA has with the public are qualitatively different and are quantitatively different from that of the RCMP. Also, the CBSA has a very different training regimen. It is, I would say, much more robust than what the RCMP does at depot.

Public Safety committee  Regarding your comments on special constables, we must keep in mind that the RCMP is overrepresented in small communities where minority community members in Canada are often underrepresented. This bill could lead to very real impacts on this issue. When it comes to national security, we have to look at the activities included in the RCMP's mandates, which include federal policing and national policing services, instead of the mandates from the RCMP's various contracts.

Public Safety committee  To my knowledge, the only jurisdiction to actually do so is Ontario. Ontario spent a lot of time discussing conditions to make it happen. It's a matter of deciding if a suspension without salary can happen from the very beginning, or when a certain threshold is reached, or if taxpayers will have to collect the salary payments made during the process.

Public Safety committee  Thank you, Madam, for offering me the opportunity. The bill contains disciplinary measures for members of the CBSA and RCMP. It seems to me that disciplinary measures for members of the RCMP, even the most severe ones, are still too lenient. You risk creating frustration among the general public.

Public Safety committee  Exactly. It includes everyone who wears a uniform and is not a regular member of the RCMP or CBSA.

Public Safety committee  The provincial agencies tend to have a streaming mechanism as to what conduct investigations are done by the local forces and what investigations fall within the remit of the provincial agency. I think there's probably an opportunity here for perhaps lower-level conduct investigations to be done within the agency.

Public Safety committee  My hunch is that, the way the division of labour has been shaking out between NSICOP and NSIRA, NSIRA does the more operational pieces and NSICOP does the broader strategic pieces. Here, I think we have an opportunity with the PCRC to focus more on the tactical items. I think NSICOP, with 16 agencies and departments plus the Department of National Defence, has plenty of work already.