Justice committee  We think that the bill, as drafted, reflects the requirements stemming from the Federal Court of Appeal's decision in Bourbonnais v. Canada. As we said a bit earlier, the process includes much shorter appeal proceedings. Lawyers’ fees will therefore be much lower than they are right now.

Justice committee  Thank you, Mr. Garrison. As I said earlier, unfortunately those are difficult questions to answer based on Bill C-9 alone, because that will be part of what the CJC will have to provide for in its policies outlining how it will deal with complainants under Bill C-9. Currently, when the CJC has carriage of a complaint and asks the judge for submissions on the complaint and receives submissions that indicate that maybe some clarification of the complaint is required, my understanding is that the CJC does absolutely go back to the complainant and ask for clarification and ask for more information.

Justice committee  Obviously, the rules of procedures will have to be consistent with anything that's in the bill, but there's no empowering provision that specifically targets the rules. Administrative bodies always have the ability to set rules that govern their own procedures, and it's pursuant to that implied power that the CJC will develop rules of procedure for the various stages of the process.

Justice committee  Yes, the criteria will be set by the council, and the council will determine how the laypersons are selected and so on, yes.

Justice committee  The term limit is four years, and I believe that's in the bill somewhere in proposed sections 81 to 85. It's in the 80s. Proposed sections 81 to 85, I believe, relate to rosters, so somewhere in there, there is the limit of four years for both laypersons on the lay roster and for judges who are not council members on the judges roster.

Justice committee  Ms. Othmer has just reminded me that there is also the exhortation that the roster will have to reflect the diversity of Canadians, so that's, I believe, proposed section 84. The council will be required to keep that in mind whenever it develops the roster.

Justice committee  As far as I know, that's currently included in the first part of the process. The council member who takes charge of the complaint at the start of the process first attempts mediation as a remedy. That's probably also what the review panel will do. This is a question that I encourage you to put to the council.

Justice committee  Do you mean toward the judge, the complainant or both?

Justice committee  As I said earlier in response to a question when the minister was here, the duty of procedural fairness that the council has toward the complainant is something that this bill leaves for the council to do via policies and procedures, because the universe of possible complainants is extremely large.

Justice committee  That's an excellent question, and it's a difficult balance to strike. The bill tries to strike that balance by focusing on sanctions that seem appropriate, that seem compatible with a judge's resuming their full duties with the confidence of the public. You'll notice that some sanctions that you might find in other workplaces, like suspension from duties for a time or suspension without pay, are not really included.

Justice committee  Yes. What's proposed in Bill C-9 actually compares very favourably with what's available abroad in countries very similar to ours. I can't say there's a country out there whose judiciary functions along the same lines as ours whose process is better. If you were to map out all of these processes, whether it be England, Wales, New Zealand or U.S. federal courts, they broadly have the shape of a capital letter “Y”.

Justice committee  Mr. Chair, I've become aware that you have a sign that indicates when someone runs out of time, so I should mention at the beginning that I'm mostly blind. I can't see that far, so my colleague will let me know if ever that becomes an issue.

Justice committee  No, no. I should have mentioned it. I thought I would provide a very brief overview for the committee of some of the changes in Bill C-9 that are the most salient and that will help improve the effectiveness, the fairness and the transparency of the process. It's important to appreciate that under the current process, most of the process takes place with a single member of the Canadian Judicial Council analyzing the complaint and then determining what to do about the misconduct in question.

Justice committee  The matter of fees is somewhat complicated. We could discuss the decision of the Federal Court of Appeal in Bourbonnais v. Canada later. According to that decision, a judge subject to disciplinary proceedings is entitled to have his fees paid by the government. However, it isn't entirely clear whether it's subsequently possible to compel the judge to repay those amounts.

Justice committee  I'll help a bit with that. It's important to appreciate that the Canadian Judicial Council has a duty of procedural fairness toward the complainant, and the heart of that duty is precisely to communicate the outcome of proceedings to the complainant. The bill does not address that head on, because the duty of procedural fairness is variable.