Information & Ethics committee  The act is very specific, both in subsection 5(1) for organizations and in subsection 7(1) for consultant lobbyists. There's the first asymmetry for lobbyists, Mr. Green, by the way. We treat them differently. They have to be influencing public policy. They have to be going after a bill or proposing a bill.

Information & Ethics committee  Again, I am not going to stand in your place and tell you what you should or should not amend—I have a long list—but there are aspects of the act, certainly, that could benefit from some change, the designated public office holder's provisions being one of them. The discretion of a lobbying commissioner to limit a lobbying ban, I think, needs to be expanded a little bit.

Information & Ethics committee  Send them a phone card and I'll talk to them. Seriously, the system that we have is completely undersold. We have a publicly accessible system. Anyone in the world can google and find out when an individual lobbyist spoke to someone about a particular subject. It is very easily usable.

Information & Ethics committee  We have a public registry that has all communications reported. If you know how Google works, you can cross-reference those communications with political donations. Those political donations can tell you what access happened. Corporate contributions have been illegal in Canada since the Chrétien years, so I'm not quite sure what secret corporate contributions are coming in.

Information & Ethics committee  I'm happy to do so. Thank you very much for the question. Section 10.2(1) of the Lobbying Act specifically says, “The Commissioner shall develop a Lobbyists' Code of Conduct respecting the activities described in subsections 5(1) and 7(1).” Once you are receiving payment to try to influence public policy, that is what the code of conduct applies to.

Information & Ethics committee  A 10-year period? Yeesh, that's two elections. No....

Information & Ethics committee  Fair enough. Again, there's a little bit of a duelling banjos situation about all of these different levels of lobby bans and cooling-off periods. I think the only cooling-off periods that real statutory authority exists for are the ones for public office holders who leave public office and then return to the private sector.

Information & Ethics committee  Sure. It was definitely a robust consultation, in the same way that my 10-year-old tries to consult with me when she wants to stay up a little later. We didn't get what we wanted, but that doesn't mean that the consultation wasn't robust.

Information & Ethics committee  That said, I think the condition precedent that underlined the consultation, which was that the rules on political contributions to these candidates were confusing, was kind of bouleversé, to use the right word, because it's more complicated now than it was when it started.

Information & Ethics committee  It is a very large number of people. I can't even imagine how many members are a part of your organization. It's not one man's charter right; it is multiple thousands of people who have the potential to have their rights limited. Even if it were only one, that's how our charter works—it's the charter of rights and individual freedoms.

Information & Ethics committee  I think there are two questions there. The first one is, does this actually happen? We could talk in anecdotes, but I don't think anyone has ever actually said, “This has happened. It's unethical. This is the name of the person. I lay it down like that gauntlet.” The second is, what I call the hook versus the trawler.

Information & Ethics committee  Absolutely, and if you look at the proposed code, it provides a listing of similar activities, or things that should be contemplated in a certain way. Precision is where the law comes from. It does not come from breadth. The advice I would give to you is....The reason there's confusion is these long enumerated lists with no precision.

Information & Ethics committee  I'd flip it, and say there are people who are registrants right now who have said, very firmly, that as a result of this proposed code, they would not participate in the democratic process in the future. That's bad. You are free to participate in the democratic process, as I could go and volunteer for a local candidate, but after the fact, I would be limited in what my professional capacity would be to interact with government—and not necessarily with that person but with government itself.

Information & Ethics committee  That's a fantastic question. If you look at the enabling provisions of the statute, they're about ensuring that the lobbying that actually happens will happen in a way that is ethical and transparent, and can be done in a publicly accountable way. There are certain aspects of the proposed code that make a lot of sense, namely, confidentiality with your clients, honesty, and dealing with information that you are provided as you are talking about regulations.

Information & Ethics committee  There are two key points I want this committee to consider, as it reflects on the lobbying commissioner's proposed code of conduct. The first is on the charter implications of what the commissioner has proposed, and the impact on how individual electors participate in the democratic process.