Canada-China Relations committee  Mr. Chair, my own specific awareness of these programs is quite low. They're not something I have to deal with in my day-to-day job anymore. Certainly, going back in time to my time at the national microbiology lab, I had periodic engagements with an individual CSIS agent from the Winnipeg office where we were mutually developing a little bit of awareness.

Canada-China Relations committee  No, I didn't have that specific concern, sir.

Canada-China Relations committee  Mr. Chair, I don't recall the specific work that might have happened with China over the course of the Ebola virus work. Certainly in general, internationally, there would be coordination and collaboration on this because, of course, for most countries this is, fortunately, not a virus that is native to their country, so it's something you have to work with other countries to obtain and work on.

Canada-China Relations committee  Mr. Chair, again, the rationale for working with them is just part of that international expectation of benefit sharing. Again, for those who don't have access to these viruses, you're in a position to share. That would have been the ethos at the time. Again, within the laboratory, in terms of due diligence on the process, it would have been almost entirely a biosafety consideration.

Canada-China Relations committee  Mr. Chair, I would reiterate that it was part of the overall ethos and the culture, scientifically, for that benefit-sharing where possible, but with the checks and balances that I mentioned.

Canada-China Relations committee  [Technical difficulty—Editor] between institutes. It's not just the materials that would be transferred back and forth. It's the expertise. It's the lived experience. It's epidemiologic information and metadata. There are a variety of requirements you need for successful science.

Canada-China Relations committee  Mr. Chair, I would agree with that.

Canada-China Relations committee  Mr. Chair, there are a variety of options and a multitude of ways that people can collaborate. I know from the U.K. that, especially under the lens of national security, they calculated that probably at least about half of all scientific collaboration in the country is founded in some degree on international collaboration.

Canada-China Relations committee  Mr. Chair, that's another complex question. I know Canada is well respected in terms of its microbiology expertise, its virology expertise and its role in the study of the transmission of antimicrobial resistance. In the fields that I work in, yes, it is absolutely respected.

Canada-China Relations committee  Mr. Chair, a really good example, again coming from the U.K., is where security authorities have co-developed, with scientific institutes, guidelines and practices . An example comes from the National Protective Security Authority where they have co-developed pieces with science.

Canada-China Relations committee  I don't know if it's more effective, because, again, this is something that is still at the discussion point in the U.K. Certainly, the amount of guidance available is elevated. That's just a trend within the U.K. They don't leave anything unwritten. If anything is important, there will be corollary policy guidelines if not laws related to it.

Canada-China Relations committee  I absolutely agree that the timing is key here. This is what's important to me in the messaging here today. The coordination between science and security is going to be effective in rapidly detecting and acting upon these particular threats when they appear. In the context of what we're discussing here now, I certainly wouldn't characterize that the lab was insecure.

Canada-China Relations committee  In the future, it absolutely should happen in a shorter time frame. When you apply hindsight in this particular scenario and look at the circumstances going on, this is an area where parties are all gaining awareness. This is a public service department that, at the outset, is applying public service principles to the investigation.

Canada-China Relations committee  In the U.K., again, there are a variety of examples I could provide to the committee in terms of actual policies, guidelines and, in some cases, even laws in place to scrutineer.

Canada-China Relations committee  Mr. Chair, that's a fair question. Yes, I did resign, but the reasons for my resignation were different. I had one of those rare moments in life where there is a perfect opportunity professionally and personally. The roles I have in the U.K. exactly meet my interests and skill sets.