Fisheries committee  Yes. Well, they could be, yes.

Fisheries committee  May I answer the question?

Fisheries committee  Where the process is now, just so that everybody here knows, is that the facility does not have a permit to operate yet. It is subject to successful completion of what are called “source test emissions”. That's been done, and it's under review. Just before I came here, the province announced that it would not make a determination on whether they would give the facility a licence to operate until receiving the result of a hearing, which just finished last week.

Fisheries committee  I would beg to differ.

Fisheries committee  I don't have recent numbers, but historically it has been in the tens of thousands.

Fisheries committee  Herring populations are down; capelin populations are down; cod fishery, which there was, is gone; lobster fishery is down; scallop fishery, the natural fishery is so depleted they are now looking at enhancement methods to try to bring back scallops. Numerous species are in decline in the Baie des Chaleurs.

Fisheries committee  In fact, DFO science has done some work around the effluent and whether it was toxic to fish. It doesn't just contain calcium sulphate, it contains some metals as well. The pH of it is toxic to fish. DFO science has done experiments on it. It is toxic to fish.

Fisheries committee  The pH and also toxicity.

Fisheries committee  They could have, but they didn't, and it's now moot, because it doesn't operate.

Fisheries committee  Exactly. It's what's called a controlled fishing area. The lobsters are caught to prevent them from going into--

Fisheries committee  Absolutely.

Fisheries committee  I have to say that everybody did. The way it's been described is that this project came into the province on cat's feet, meaning it just sort of appeared; that there was some kind of negotiation going on that the citizens were really not privy to prior to its becoming a fait accompli.

Fisheries committee  It was the province.

Fisheries committee  It's not been proven, has it, in St. Ambroise?

Fisheries committee  St. Ambroise, Quebec, is a site where Bennett Environmental operates what is called Récupère Sol Inc., RSI. It is another one of these high thermal oxidizer facilities. In the fall of 2004, I believe, the Quebec government issued an order for the plant to undergo some changes to its practices, because they found dioxins to be elevated in the vicinity of the plant.