Veterans Affairs committee  Certainly there was nothing in the report that would work against a five-year period, if that were considered necessary. I think you are absolutely right, sir, in saying that it should come to a committee. Mind you, the members of the Woods committee—and if I may say so, I myself—were fairly familiar with the way Parliament works, although I can't say for sure that in the report you would find the suggestion that it should go first to a standing committee.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes. If it were put to the national veterans organizations today, I cannot say that they would agree. But I have a feeling that the ones for which I speak—I'm the chairman of a 55-member group—would certainly accept it. They'd say, “Get on with the job and make it quick.”

Veterans Affairs committee  We had a meeting of the National Council of Veterans Associations. I gave them a report on how an ombudsman would work. They seemed to think that was the way we should go, rather than being bogged down with more red tape, administrative horrors, and everything that could come up.

Veterans Affairs committee  Again, it came back to the mandate, and the mandate was to come up with a new system of adjudication or to tell us that the present one was okay. But there was no wiggle room left. The committee could not recommend a system in which the ombudsman was giving the final decision.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes. The committee met with almost all of the viable veterans organizations at that time. One of the questions the committee threw out was, “This is what we're thinking of if we have to go the minority route.” I'm not saying it still applies, but at that time the veterans organizations said they would prefer an ombudsman rather than a system that had five or six different members on it.

Veterans Affairs committee  No, not at all.

Veterans Affairs committee  No. Let me say this. In all the reading I've done, of which there has been a gargantuan amount, an ombudsman is always referred to in the masculine gender.

Veterans Affairs committee  Well, sir, when the Woods committee commenced its deliberations, that was exactly the system. There were tribunals of three people. There was a review board of five people, and simply put, it was not working. The decision of the House at the time was that they needed an independent report, and one of the mandates that we were given was to get something quicker and cheaper.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes, an unsuccessful applicant's case could go to the courts through the veterans bureau or through his own lawyer. We stayed away from that simply because it was one of the no-nos. We said don't plug the courts up with applications, because it's just going to slow the whole process.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes. I joined the Royal Winnipeg Rifles in June of 1939. I took a commission in July of 1941. I was fully trained in commando tactics and was on one raid prior to D-Day. My batallion landed in D-Day on June 4, 1944. I at that time was a captain who was promoted to major, and I was wounded in the hand.

Veterans Affairs committee  If he read the report and saw the atmosphere in which it came forward, because we were in a panic with regard to how we were handling veterans claims, he would say he had better find a solution. The solution might simply be that he was sorry, but it was beyond his jurisdiction, or whatever.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes, sir. It is all contained in the other 60 or 70 pages of Judge Lindal's report on the ombudsman. It would be unfair for me, just off the corner of my desk, to say I know what it is. We know roughly what it was because there was too much being spent on pension administration.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes, I believe the committee looked at that carefully. What they said was two years--to put the appointment in and give it two years--but that there will be an automatic mandate to review in two years' time, sir.

Veterans Affairs committee  Monsieur, that was not contemplated by the Woods committee. They said they would lay down the law on how he should be appointed. They said to give it two years, and if it worked, fine. They did not say there would be a review by the Auditor General or anything like that. They simply said two years would be enough time to know if it was going to work.