Government Operations committee  Yes.

Government Operations committee  I like model 3 because of the transparency and visibility, but also the controls it gives to parliamentarians. Also, one of the concerns that we all have is that somebody can play with the amortization, depending on whether you have room or not. But given that we're having our statements audited annually and one of the key accounting principles is consistency, I would say that if there were some inappropriate changes to the amortization or the depreciation policy to suit a certain need, that would be picked up.

Government Operations committee  Yes.

Government Operations committee  It was over five years. It was a PricewaterhouseCoopers study recommending some specific timelines in terms of what you do after year one, year three, year four, and year five. That would not be a bad model.

Government Operations committee  Thank you very much for that question. Maybe I can take the first stab at it. You say model 4 is probably the one you would favour. I would say maybe model 3 and model 4 would be the two models that would be roughly in the zone of where it would probably be the most useful for members.

Government Operations committee  —depending on whether it's done with other activities or other changes that we're talking about. So it would take significant dollars, but that is not a bad ballpark figure in terms of how much it would cost. However, it could also be done over a number of years. What might also be important to look into is the fact that PricewaterhouseCoopers also gave us an idea in terms of a timeline having to do with the first three years, and then doing it over five years.

Government Operations committee  If I may, Madam Chair, perhaps we could dive right into the subject of the meeting. My colleague will go through the presentation, and after that we can have a discussion. David.

Public Accounts committee  No disrespect was intended, Mr. Chairman. My apologies.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you.

Public Accounts committee  No, there's not. On order of magnitude, when you look at the public accounts, you see $200 billion worth of expenditure and $1 billion worth of materiality. Is the materiality half of 1%? In the industry, it has changed to between half of 1% and 1.5%. It's in that range. But again, to the point, even though they would be below the dollar threshold, some transactions are significant, so it should not only be a question of dollars, but the significance of the information to the reader or the stakeholder.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you very much for the question. As the Auditor General herself said, there is no magic answer. It really depends on the environment, the circumstances, and the risk involved. However, I think we're getting close.

Public Accounts committee  Like I said, I really read the report with great interest, and I thank you for the recommendation. It provided me with a pretty strong sense of direction of the intent of the legislators, in terms of where you want to go. If I may, I appreciate that this might not be satisfactory to the committee, but we are getting close in terms of reporting to the president.

Public Accounts committee  There's no doubt about that, sir.

Public Accounts committee  The policy that was enacted as of April 1 this year says that by 2009 all the larger departments—which means about 40 to 45 in total, if I'm not wrong—will have a majority of their members who will be citizens. They will no longer be members of the management team of the department.

Public Accounts committee  Some of them have started. We have some independent members.