Human Resources committee  I wanted to add that the poverty issue is more serious among immigrants. Newcomers to Canada are not as successful as previous generations. It is a problem that goes beyond just employment. It involves identity, as well as other issues. The issue of school dropouts is something that we talked about and that has a significant impact on immigrants.

Human Resources committee  Right.

Human Resources committee  Can I answer that?

Human Resources committee  This is the old notion that social policy and social justice are a zero-sum game. I could ask you--you cut the GST, which I support one hundred per cent--can you tell us how cutting the GST helped poor people? We know we did it to help poor people because low-income people pay a higher percentage of their income in the GST.

Human Resources committee  Let me offer one example.

Human Resources committee  Let's just look at the facts now: 48% of the people who live beneath the poverty line, all over Canada, are working; and in some of those homes, they're holding down two jobs at minimum wage, which is insufficient to actually meet their requirements. They're still beneath the poverty line.

Human Resources committee  We made various requests to the Library of Parliament and other organizations in terms of the notional cost. Now of course how you design such a program will have a huge impact on the notional cost. As someone of the conservative persuasion, I'd be concerned about spending more than we are now spending in the social envelope.

Human Resources committee  Thank you very much.

Human Resources committee  It is our opinion, as well as the opinion of those who worked on our report, that we need to take what we call the no-fault way forward approach, in other words, a plan that does not assign blame, regardless of the party or the province. It does, however, point out best practices in certain provinces.

Human Resources committee  I would only add that one of the benefits of federal leadership on this issue is that if you think about the transfer programs that now exist between Ottawa and the provinces, of which a portion goes to social welfare spending, a portion to post-secondary, and a portion to health care, and if you think about the implications of those being cut by a third back in the 1990s for what appeared to be unavoidable fiscal reasons at the time, each province has its own matching proposition, where the feds contribute and they contribute.

Human Resources committee  Thank you, Chair. Members of the committee, thank you for inviting us here to discuss our report. Senator Eggleton has covered many of the findings regarding the Senate subcommittee’s two-year study. And I agree completely that, in a country like Canada, it is unacceptable that so many of our fellow citizens find themselves in the untenable situation that is poverty.