Government Operations committee  That's the commitment that we're making to you.

Government Operations committee  Phoenix is not built the same way. It's very much a self-serve system, and that's the principle behind it, that you do a lot yourself. You have access to things, your manager goes in—it's not the same interaction that you used to have. To say that it will be the same thing I think would be wrong, but—

Government Operations committee  Yes, they will in Miramichi.

Government Operations committee  We have to remember that the backlog.... We talked about two components. We talked about the transactions that were still in the system and not complete and we talked about the extra-duty pay that was forwarded after. But there's also the portion of the learning curve. We knew it would happen: a bit of a slowdown as the system is put in place.

Government Operations committee  Again, it's a series of things. It's not one issue, and I wish it were just one, but it's a number of things. That's why, at the beginning, we were expecting some slowdown in productivity, and then we were looking at the complaints, and that's why we weren't able to....

Government Operations committee  I can start by saying that the relationship with the unions, for us, is extremely important. This was day 14 for me, and it was very important to meet with them because I wanted to have a conversation about what they were hearing. What I remember our conversation being was that they raised with me the issue of, could we not go to phase two?

Government Operations committee  At this point, we cannot provide the cost of the compensation.

Government Operations committee  And we did delay.

Government Operations committee  As I think I said earlier, I would have seen our moving to phase two, but I would have recommended that we prepare better the users of the system. I think the change management, and I'll say the educational component of the employees and managers...because it is a very different system to use.

Government Operations committee  I don't believe I said the problem was with the users. If I did, what I meant was that the problem was with the users getting used to the system. I'm not blaming the users; I'm actually blaming us for not preparing properly the users of the system. I think we missed on this. That's not on the users; it's on us.

Government Operations committee  What we have right now are the measures that we've taken, meaning the satellites and call centres. The measures we've taken right now are costing $15 to $20 million. We're in the process of looking at other things, so we'll soon be able to provide the additional costs. As soon as we have the other process in place, we'll be able to also have a sense of the magnitude.

Government Operations committee  I will, with pleasure.

Government Operations committee  I will share my opinion on that. Rosanna might want to add something after that. Clearly, now it's immediate, although it was much longer before. It used to be six weeks, but now it's about three or four weeks. I want to reiterate what I said earlier: implementing this system has highlighted defects that existed perhaps even before Phoenix.

Government Operations committee  This issue has been raised and it's very important. My Treasury Board colleagues are talking to the unions to establish a process in that regard. There will be something, but we don't have any details. As soon as it's announced, employees will know. We're asking them to keep all supporting documentation as much as possible.

Government Operations committee  It was strongly felt that the risk of people not getting paid or not properly paid outweighed the risk of actually moving to phase two. The risk was serious. The system was an old one. People were working on two systems. There was training and education needed and a learning curve was required for the new system.