Veterans Affairs committee  I think when we look at pre-charter, it will give you a bit better context for considering that. We had run programs—for example, the disability pension program was an entitlement-based program. In other words, if you had the disability you got this much money; it didn't matter whether you needed it; you just got it; it was a compensatory program.

Veterans Affairs committee  It may be less a matter of frequency, although if you look at the original Veterans Charter between 1946 and 1953, I think there were three separate periods when that was amended and changed. By the time of the Korean War, there was a statute passed called the Veterans Benefit Act, which added to the World War II Veterans Charter.

Veterans Affairs committee  We have a group right now called the New Veterans Charter Advisory Group, which is made up of veterans organizations, experts in the area of disability management, and psychological care. It is providing guidance of a professional nature to the government on the experience of the new Veterans Charter and changes that may be needed.

Veterans Affairs committee  They'll be reporting some time this year on their deliberations. That will be a public report, and I'm sure your committee will be interested in talking to members of that group, and they're more than willing to be here, I think.

Veterans Affairs committee  We have a formal evaluation done by our evaluation directorate, which steps outside the current frame and looks at the overall outcomes and effectiveness of the program. It also tries to answer the question that was already asked about whether it is the right trade-off between a disability pension and disability award in terms of investing in wellness?

Veterans Affairs committee  The first stage of that will be finished this year. It's a two-year one, so it will be done in about 18 months to two years.

Veterans Affairs committee  It is a document for your use here and for the public.

Veterans Affairs committee  I'll attempt to answer some of those, Mr. Chair, if I can. With regard to the question you raised about allied veterans, your question of course requires a political answer, as you know--what, when, and under what circumstances--but it's fair to say, I think, that everybody is interested in helping these individuals as soon as possible, so there is a certain heightened awareness there.

Veterans Affairs committee  That's understood? All right. With regard to the lump sum versus the annuity or the return of the pension, to an extent it depends on who is asking, because some people want the lump sum paid out as an annuity, which is a possibility if it's invested properly, but you've got to be careful when you're investing these days, as we all know.

Veterans Affairs committee  Actually, most of them would be primary decisions. Some would go to appeal, but it would be a relatively small number.

Veterans Affairs committee  I might add that there was no support for families. It's different for families now. People have a career in the military, as opposed to the situation at the end of the Second World War, when after three years of service in a civilian army, they went back home. They don't have a home to go back to, so we need to support the families that have been moving from base to base and have experienced deployments of people overseas in increasingly risky operations.

Veterans Affairs committee  Yes, there's no distinction.

Veterans Affairs committee  Being reserve service, the difficulty of course is finding them, because they can come and go at will. That's the challenge, to make sure that when they leave the military.... We offer a transition interview to anyone who is leaving the military, but if you don't come back for a second or third contract when you're on reserve we don't see you again.

Veterans Affairs committee  Mr. Chair, in the scenarios we purposely did not put the amounts of the benefits the individuals received. They're fairly extensive in the latter case, and we can do that; however, we wanted to show what the outcomes of our interventions were compared to what we would have been able to do before the new Veterans Charter, which would have been to give a person a pension, and that would have been it.

Veterans Affairs committee  Another five minutes would be great. Brenda, do you want to walk us through those scenarios?