Human Resources committee  I certainly think that awareness is a big factor on which we need to continue to work. As I said, some of these issues have been long-standing. They're not new. There may be structural aspects of our education system. You mentioned the international experience, with some countries having some interesting successes that we can learn from.

Human Resources committee  Yes. Demography is certainly a challenge. We're doing a lot better. Over the years, as I indicated in my speech, registration has increased 120% since 1995. That's very significant. I'm not sure that the extent to which completion goes tells us something about what's going on in the industry, because of the factors that I've explained.

Human Resources committee  There are certainly a number of under-represented groups that could fare better in the trades, aboriginal people being one of them. We have an initiative directly targeted at them, certainly through ASETS, which is a federal program at HRSDC for aboriginal people, for sectors that are in high demand.

Human Resources committee  Yes, and seeing that in Canada the average age is 25 for enrolling in programs, this is an area we're examining.

Human Resources committee  Well, as I said, this is multi-factor. I liked Ms. Charlton's comment when she said that you have to put yourself in the place of individuals entering a five-year program, in that a lot of things happen during these programs.

Human Resources committee  It's certainly a fairly recent initiative. There is a lag in the data, so it's very hard to demonstrate the affect it has at this point. We have our survey indicating that the apprentices and the employers appreciate the service they're receiving. It's reaching the intended individuals and it's recognizing the cost and it removes some of the financial hardship that individuals may face as they pursue their program.

Human Resources committee  To be honest with you, I'm not too familiar with these studies. I'm told there are some out there in terms of examining the different practices. There's a fair amount of expertise within the CCDA in terms of various apprenticeship programs. We're certainly interested in what's going on in the U.S. right now.

Human Resources committee  Yes.

Human Resources committee  Yes, and certainly in Germany as well.

Human Resources committee  Well, we certainly have a number of initiatives. The grants are one way that we've been doing it. We've also been doing a number of targeted advertising campaigns as part of the Better Jobs campaign, the recent one that you've seen on national television. There are the grants and, as I said, all the targeted initiatives that we have around youth, where some of the initiatives in essence are directly targeted at promoting the trades.

Human Resources committee  The individuals are training. First, they need an employer that supports them, and supports them for the long haul. It's also a demand-driven industry, so you need to have actual work. The other thing, too, is that some people who start as carpenters may discover that in another trade which may not be a compulsory trade, for example, a wall plasterer or other trade, they can make just as decent money.

Human Resources committee  Yes.

Human Resources committee  Yes. Sorry, I should say a labour-driven industry. You need to have construction projects. You need to have them in the region where the apprentices are available, more in the sense that this is a pro-cyclical type of industry.

Human Resources committee  That's the reason we're acting on both sides of the ledger, as I said. For example, we have the apprenticeship job creation tax credit. That's a credit to employers of up to $2,000 for apprentices. We're also providing grants to students. They're not what I would call student loans, but they're actual grants, up to $4,000 as well, if they complete.

Human Resources committee  They get what we call the apprenticeship incentive grant, which is $2,000. There's the apprenticeship completion grant, which is another $2,000. For entering, they get the $2,000 in grants. If they complete the apprenticeship, they get an additional $2,000, for a total of $4,000 over the course of their program.