Afghanistan committee  Okay. First, whether someone was or was not a Canadian-transferred detainee is a very important issue. We were not able to determine that. We had no way of believing that these people that Richard saw in Kabul were Canadian-transferred detainees, so as a result we worked on a database that started from any arrest of a detainee right through to his being placed in the Afghan justice system.

Afghanistan committee  That's why moving to fact-based work was important. Actually going into the prisons with a standard template, asking the same questions, having a database where we could determine whether we were dealing with the same person—because many people have the same name in Afghanistan—through the system, where we had people who were trained in torture awareness in these interviews, that is when we could speak with authority on what was happening.

Afghanistan committee  Yes, in that he never brought forward—and I think Richard would say this—any report alleging mistreatment of a Canadian-transferred detainee. But let me say something about Richard's reporting. I didn't disagree with his fundamental issue, which was that we needed to develop a robust and better system.

Afghanistan committee  In general terms, I think there are a couple of concerns. This is true, and I am not speaking of the material that you discussed earlier. Reporting from the field and reporting from Afghanistan often includes information provided to us by our military allies, who provide it in confidence, or by the Government of Afghanistan, who provide it in confidence.

Afghanistan committee  Sure.

Afghanistan committee  What I said was, and this is important, that there were problems in the Afghan system--

Afghanistan committee  Okay, but that's an important assertion, and I have to address it right now.

Afghanistan committee  We never, ever transferred anyone if we thought there was a substantial risk of torture. We knew there were problems in the Afghan system, but we developed a robust monitoring system. We intervened with training. We had every means of addressing the system from the very top, the president--and we intervened with the president--through the ministers, the director of the NDS, and on down.

Afghanistan committee  No, it goes to your individual C4 account, so if it went to 78 people, 78 people would see it.

Afghanistan committee  Yes.

Afghanistan committee  If that had been what I said.

Afghanistan committee  Okay, can I come back and try to answer those questions?

Afghanistan committee  We visited his residence. We didn't see any facility—

Afghanistan committee  We spoke to people at a very high level in Kabul to express our concerns about these allegations, but we were never able to find any specific item that we could point to.

Afghanistan committee  Correct.