Afghanistan committee  They were trying to use the NDS as subcontracting for torture.

Afghanistan committee  Yes.

Afghanistan committee  I was translating it from English to Pashto. Before we transferred the detainees, a copy of the English and Pashto translation was given to NDS.

Afghanistan committee  And the English one, yes.

Afghanistan committee  Most certainly, because if NDS has it, then they should have it in their file as well.

Afghanistan committee  The language is very simple here if you look at it. If they wanted to extract more information from them, if they were deceptive, they kept them longer and asked them questions until they were satisfied. If you can't get it out of them through a normal way, then you have to subcontract the torture.

Afghanistan committee  There was no one in the Canadian military with a uniform who was involved in any way, at any level, with the detainee transfers who did not know what was going on and what the NDS does to their detainees.

Afghanistan committee  Yes.

Afghanistan committee  When I was in Kandahar I heard from the local people. They were telling me I had to watch because they were investigating me. And that information was leaked. Also, I was in Panjwai, where an older man by the name of Abdul Barikhaka was working in the kitchen, and he came and told me, “Either you quit the job or you leave.”

Afghanistan committee  I spoke directly to ASIC.

Afghanistan committee  Well, in the village, the people and their neighbours, Afghan people, also have their honour. They do not want to show what is going on and what they're going through to another person, because of the stigma. The next time they will say, “Okay, I helped you when you needed me,” and all this stuff.

Afghanistan committee  No. That family, the woman, she told me, “I don't have money to pay for my husband's release, for freedom, and I don't even have money to pay for food, to buy food for my children.”

Afghanistan committee  My first specific chain of command was a captain of CI. Then the second chain of command was ASIC. After, I worked for the general, and then my chain of command was Commander Laroche.

Afghanistan committee  I had a good relationship, but the decision on whether to transfer or not to transfer and on the interrogation of detainees was part of ASIC, not part of HQ. He had the last say. If there was a problem, he would authorize the release or transfer, but if there was a case that was controversial....

Afghanistan committee  Okay. I know this because when I was working for MWT, the mobile warfare team, you're listening to the phone. There was a report that my colleague gave, and that was that they had listened to the phone of a Canadian citizen. After two or three minutes, a call came from Ottawa saying, “Okay, this is a Canadian citizen; you cannot do that.”