Transport committee  Certainly I think Transport Canada, particularly under the last few budgets, has suffered. I also think there are issues with the retirement wave moving through. Even if the numbers are maintained, the experience level is down in some areas and that tends to slow things up. However, I would also suggest that some things are not particularly value-added on the safety side of things and that effort would be best spent in some other areas rather than some of this routine work.

Transport committee  It adds an unnecessary burden. I think you're far better off to have a better awareness program along with, as I suggested, perhaps a simplified process so that it becomes easy for the average small person to comply. Right now it's a program that's aimed at the sophisticated shipper, and if you're not a sophisticated shipper, then it can be very daunting.

Transport committee  That goes back to more of the early implementation of SMS. In our opinion—and bear in mind that is opinion only—Transport Canada did not do a very good job of explaining SMS to a lot of their front-line inspectors initially. There was certainly a perception among them that this was moving to carrier self-regulation, that the inspectors would not have a role in oversight, and that the big bad carriers were going to get away with murder and not carry out everything satisfactorily, and it's just simply not the case.

Transport committee  On the role of the inspector, interestingly enough, we find anecdotally that the inspectors actually prefer to audit, visit, and deal with SMS carriers because they find that the systems in place allow them to more easily monitor the carrier. The carrier is doing self-audit and is doing a lot of their own checks and balances.

Transport committee  Certainly the under...and it's not just SMS aspects that have changed it. With cutbacks at Transport Canada, the flight inspectors in particular do not have the same opportunity to interact with carriers that they did before.

Transport committee  I'm afraid the problem I'm having right now is that Transport has been very close to its chest with the requirements for the smaller carriers. So we actually have no concept of where their thinking is right now. We would very much like the opportunity to see and comment on what their current thoughts are in this area so that we can provide some sort of sanity check with regard to it.

Transport committee  SMS is fairly distinct from dangerous goods in terms of programs. Nevertheless, SMS principles, particularly in the larger carriers, are used to manage the SMS programs, so you're always looking at risk. One of the things you have to remember is that going into a lot of the smaller remote communities, you're not subject, in a lot of cases, to the security screening requirements.

Transport committee  It would be on the person's word.

Transport committee  Certainly the level we've experienced among our member carriers, of someone intentionally trying to beat the system, is fortunately extremely low. Most people realize that having it on the aircraft is an issue, and they're likely also on the aircraft, and that this is not a really good idea.

Transport committee  I hope I didn't leave the impression that I feel it should not go ahead for the smaller carriers. I would like to dispel that if I did. My concern is that Transport Canada, when they bring in the requirements for smaller carriers, do so in a manner that is sensitive to the nature of these smaller organizations and that the requirements are achievable without putting a significant financial burden on them, which I do believe is possible.

Transport committee  Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I'd like to thank the committee for providing this opportunity for the Northern Air Transport Association, or NATA, to present before it. As you've heard, my name is Stephen Nourse, and I'm the executive director of NATA. I will apologize ahead of time if my voice cracks partway through.

Transport committee  I don't think the northern situation is transferable to the south. We have a very good record, shall we say, in the Arctic, but it's primarily because the market is so small. A lot of it is due to everybody knowing everybody. I refer to the aircraft up there quite often as the local bus.

Transport committee  I think Transport Canada has a lot of consultation at times. We're not quite sure how much they listen. I would say that's the way to characterize it. Sometimes they seem to be good meetings and you think you have a good direction and a feel, and then the next week something completely different happens.

Transport committee  Certainly it's more of a challenge in the smaller operators, simply because you don't have the quantities of data to work with that you have in the large ones. Certainly, though, the experience in the large carriers has been very positive, as I've mentioned. We just feel that taking this breather, shall we say, is quite appropriate to take a look at the lessons learned with the large carriers and make sure that when it is rolled out to the smaller ones it is appropriate to their size and complexity.

Transport committee  Good morning. I'm Stephen Nourse, executive director of the Northern Air Transport Association, or NATA. I'd like to thank all of you on behalf of our members for the opportunity to address this committee. For those of you not familiar with NATA, the association was formed 33 years ago to represent northern air carriers in the decision-making process affecting transportation in northern Canada.