National Defence committee  Yes.

National Defence committee  I'm not getting into those kinds of questions. I will say that I do not lobby, never have lobbied, and never will lobby, because I don't want to get into those kinds of conundrums.

National Defence committee  Yes.

National Defence committee  We have some idea, and I'm sure if you went to the department they would tell you.

National Defence committee  That's correct.

National Defence committee  No, but pretty well. And I will take this opportunity to point out--and you may want to get a copy of this--that the long-term costs of any asset are often, as I've said, higher than the initial acquisition cost. And we put out while I was there long-term equipment support cost projections, looking 10 to 15 years ahead as best we could, in order to give this committee, as well as industry, an idea.

National Defence committee  No, but I am saying that when we bought the recent helicopters, our Maritime helicopters, we knew exactly what it was going to be because that was part of the contract. We went out to industry and said that we wanted to know what the initial acquisition costs and long-term costs are, in black and white, per contract, so we can budget for that appropriately.

National Defence committee  The military.

National Defence committee  For the next 15 years, for sure. But at least we knew for 15 years what the costs were.

National Defence committee  No, it wasn't an estimate. It's a contract. It wasn't an estimate. This was what one party was committed to pay the other as per the contract. It was not an estimate.

National Defence committee  Then the terms and conditions would have to apply to it. There's a big difference between saying to me that there's an estimate out there in Fuzzyville and a contract that stipulates a number.

National Defence committee  This government has said that it has no idea what the long-term costs are for the F-35. All of the reports produced by Congress, and right now all of the research done, confirmed this, that the costs right now are not under control. There are huge problems in the development of the aircraft, and nobody knows what the final cost is going to be.

National Defence committee  If you compete this, I guarantee you they will tell you exactly what their contractual commitment is going to be when we buy these Griffons, Rafales, Typhoons, Super Hornets, and support them for the next x number of years. It won't be estimates. Things can always happen, but the government and the department can then go ahead and budget.

National Defence committee  But I'm saying you do, and I can prove that you do.

National Defence committee  The answer is absolutely. Why don't we have fixed-wing search and rescue planes today? In 2004 the Department of Finance came to us and said here's a billion dollars; we'll give it to you to buy anything you want. I met with the vice-chief at the time, General Macdonald, and we said we need search and rescue fixed-wing.