Public Safety committee  In the United States you've got the series of different jurisdictions. You've got the federal and the state jurisdictions. So it varies enormously. The California system is that if a restitution order is made, then the state correction system--you've got two levels of the correctional system--tracks the payments and they take money off the wages or income of the prisoner.

Public Safety committee  Two minutes. Sorry, my watch is not working right then. The most recent act is the Justice for All Act. That includes restitution, includes legal aid, options for getting it, and that is of course behind a proposal that was launched last week to get a constitutional amendment in the United States that would include restitution.

Public Safety committee  I think it's very clear that we don't have a system where the needs of victims are taken into consideration in a just and fair way. It's a surprise for victims when they go through the criminal justice process and find that the judge does not give due consideration to restitution.

Public Safety committee  Thank you for that introduction and for the opportunity to speak to crime victim issues in front of this committee. I want to add to the introduction two or three things that I think are relevant to what I'm going to say. I was involved in a major study in the seventies on the needs of crime victims and how we could meet those needs.

Justice committee  You've had many people, way more expert than I, who have been looking at what is likely to happen in terms of incarceration levels. My focus is very much that there is a key element missing from a bill that is about safe communities, that is about reducing harm to victims, and that is about prevention.

Justice committee  Correct.

Justice committee  I don't think that is easy to determine, because we've had a number of bills, like the dangerous offender legislation, like the two for one legislation, that are going to have a downstream effect. What we can say is it is going to take some time, if this legislation were passed tomorrow, before there would be any significant increase in people in prison in this country.

Justice committee  Statistics Canada has since 1962 had a reporting system called the uniform crime reporting survey, similar to the system in the U.S. or in the U.K. A lot of effort goes in to making that uniform, and there's no doubt, if you look over the last 10 years, that police-recorded crime has been going down in this country.

Justice committee  That's correct.

Justice committee  It was in 2009.

Justice committee  Correct.

Justice committee  That's correct, and that's what the Minister of Justice uses too.

Justice committee  I've been involved with 14 municipalities from coast to coast that have established city-wide crime prevention and community safety strategies, including in the city of Ottawa an organization called Crime Prevention Ottawa, which has the Boys and Girls Club, the Youth Services Bureau, and so on working in partnership with the police with housing.

Justice committee  Clearly I'm in favour of the two sections that refer to victims, but these are.... Well, the one on reparation and terrorism is a very important one. The one on greater standing for victims in the parole hearing is also progress. But it's a drop in the bucket compared to what is needed.

Justice committee  I think my concern is very simple. There have only been debates about more or less punishment; there have not been debates about effective prevention. It was actually Bob Horner, the Conservative member of Parliament for Mississauga, who was the chair of the parliamentary committee that looked at what should be done.