Public Safety committee  I'm a criminal defence lawyer. I'm concerned about the 5%. That's a serious concern. Like I said, you have a marginalized individual who has a conviction for cannabis possession who then, let's say, is noted by...and this is a real-life example. Their car is pulled over and they're found to be in the company of individuals who have serious criminal records or they are just found to be somewhere where serious criminal activity is being committed.

Public Safety committee  I think 10,000 is extremely optimistic. Remember, when it comes to this category of convictions, we're dealing with a disproportionate population in terms of marginalization. We're talking about individuals with mental health or educational deficits. I think you're going to have an even lower proportion than under the historically unjust convictions.

Public Safety committee  San Francisco; snap of the fingers.

Public Safety committee  I don't know. Do they have much better computers than the Government of Canada? We're talking about the City of San Francisco there. Surely this can be done.

Public Safety committee  That might be a little outside of my can. I'm a lawyer without an opinion on something. I'll say this. You're doing a lot of good work here and when it comes to the private member's bill, Bill C-415, I hope that the work and the research this committee does, if this bill doesn't pass in the present Parliament, goes on to the next parliament that can handle it and address all of these concerns with respect to the application process, expungement versus record suspension, and ensure that this is the most just version of this bill possible, whenever it gets passed.

Public Safety committee  Yes, I think there are a number of factors here. First of all, it's all well and good to think that, when Parliament passes an act, it's somehow simultaneously transmitted, maybe telepathically or otherwise, to every Canadian. There are people who have no idea what it is that you guys are up to on a whole number of fronts—

Public Safety committee  I suspect tens of thousands of people don't even know if they have a criminal conviction for the possession of cannabis, who don't understand the implications of it. Colour me extremely skeptical that the Government of Canada can't do a search through their own conviction database.

Public Safety committee  It does not. I think that's a flaw that should be addressed, automatic and expungement.

Public Safety committee  Yes.

Public Safety committee  I'm a little agnostic about that. If you're going to the Parole Board anyway and they have the specialty in processing pardons...but then again, I've heard about the backlog for pardons. If you're not going to do it automatically, if you have some administrative process that can short-circuit the already long waiting list for record suspensions, that's probably better.

Public Safety committee  Yes, I tend to agree with that. My frame of reference here is having seen hundreds or thousands of criminal record printouts from some of my clients. The nature of the offence is very clearly delineated. That's why I said if you can go one way, that is, put a person's name to get a list of offences, those offences are listed right there and they're listed with enough specificity in my view that you could engage the record suspension or expungement process.

Public Safety committee  Good for you.

Public Safety committee  Well, if they have received a record suspension, that removes any effects of conviction. My view would actually be that an effective conviction is having to answer yes to the fact that you've been convicted. The vulnerable sector is different. I direct your attention to section 6.3 in the Criminal Records Act where the vulnerable persons issue is raised.

Public Safety committee  Absolutely.

Public Safety committee  Absolutely.