Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Listen, for every policy that's put into place, you have to consider costs and benefits, but I reject the premise that dealing with climate change means economic collapse.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I did a report—

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  —that Mr. Jean cited before that looked at the impact of meeting Kyoto on jobs in the energy sector, and it found that there would be a positive impact on jobs in Canada in the energy sector, which is supposedly the sector that's going to be hardest hit.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Sir Nicholas Stern said the same thing. The costs of not acting are higher than the costs of acting.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Better than throwing our arms in the air and saying we're at 35%? We have an international obligation to meet this. It's in our best economic interest to meet this, and it will propel momentum in the global community toward a climate change regime that adequately addresses this very important problem.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Well, like my friend here—

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I would agree. But you're asking me to ascribe motives to what the government has done, and I obviously—

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I'm going to continue to point to what the industry itself is saying, and cite again the report by Petroleum Technology Alliance Canada: there are emission reduction possibilities within the oil and gas sector—not just in Alberta, but obviously in other provinces that have an oil and gas sector—that would cost them nothing.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  It's a five-year period, and $30 billion is way inflated. I mean, the cost of credits on the international market revolves around $10 a tonne, possibly a little bit more.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  No, not necessarily, actually. If you look at the clean development mechanism and the joint implementation, there are all kinds of opportunities there that are not being seized right now, partly because the market is not getting the right signals from our government and others that there's actually going to be investment, that there's going to be a demand for those credits.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  No. The Kyoto gap is approximately 270 megatonnes.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  That's during the 2008 to 2012 period.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Sorry, by your calculations—?

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  The latest projections I've seen show that the Kyoto gap is about 270 megatonnes.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  That is the target I'm suggesting for industry. That is the target, based on simple math. You look at their 1990 emissions and subtract 6%, and you compare that to business as usual and you get 127 megatonnes for the industrial sector as a whole.