Public Accounts committee  I phoned the Treasury Board and I gave them the circumstances. I asked if I could take away this man's livelihood. I indicated that there were no criminal charges, but that there was a lot of noise at the time and things would be investigated. The answer was that I was well within my rights to send him home with pay until such time as there would be charges or it looked like we were about to lay charges.

Public Accounts committee  When I had a conversation with Chief Superintendent Doug Lang, I asked him if Sergeant Frizzell was all right. He said, “Well, Barb, I believe he's going to be off sick for a while. He's not feeling very good.” That's what I heard, and that's all I can say to that. If I can make a point, please, Mr.

Public Accounts committee  With Dom Crupi, I spoke with him after Jim Ewanovich resigned. I said he was going to have to go home because his presence was upsetting people. He protested. He said he had only done what Jim Ewanovich asked him to do, and he asked what kind of leave he would be on. I told him to go home on administrative leave and said I would check with Treasury Board—

Public Accounts committee  Yes, I can. There was a lot of conversation following what the commissioner saw as a grave disappointment in the fact that Chief Superintendent Macaulay had not come forward on a timely basis to tell him about the issues that were running rampant in NCPC, HR, and corporate. Remember, as I said, according to the commissioner, he heard Macaulay say, “Well, I knew about it for a year and a half.”

Public Accounts committee  Yes, and it is translated as well.

Public Accounts committee  Well, I could let Inspector Roy speak to that. But that e-mail gave everything that we needed, and I asked that the e-mail be attached to the letter going back to this committee.

Public Accounts committee  The decision was taken—

Public Accounts committee  By the commissioner, I believe, and DOJ--

Public Accounts committee  --the Department of Justice, which worked with the RCMP--to keep it to a minimum. The reason they kept it—

Public Accounts committee  The logic that was put forward, committee members, was that since Assistant Commissioner Gork was being flown in from Lyons and would be here in person, it would be better to hear from him in person, live and fresh, to give you all of the details. That is the decision that was taken, and I wasn't part of it.

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Chair, we have our own internal legal people who were sitting with us when we were looking at this letter. Besides the document that had been retrieved in relation to Sergeant Frizzell, there was also the e-mail that came in from Assistant Commissioner Gork. It outlined, in paragraph form, exactly what led up to the removal.

Public Accounts committee  No, David Gork came after I did. I was here on the 21st of—

Public Accounts committee  I don't believe he did, but that's why I brought the e-mail today.

Public Accounts committee  No, sir,. I'm being very fair with you. I made those phone calls to address an HR issue, an HR issue of possible abuse or harassment of employees. I'm sure you understand the Treasury Board guidelines, which also rule the RCMP. I had to take action there.

Public Accounts committee  I think what is very important to do here, the reason I made my phone calls on Mr. Frizzell--who, by the way, is quite right when he says he was never approached by anybody regarding his interviewing techniques. Nobody ever did speak with him. I know that now. I had a director general coming to me telling me that MPCC--