Public Safety committee  I don't know for sure. I'd only be guessing, sir, but certainly several hours. A lot of the self-defence training to take control of an individual who's fighting, to handcuff individuals who are uncooperative, that takes some hours for new recruits to get down to a science.

Public Safety committee  No, it would actually be less.

Public Safety committee  Yes, it's somewhat easier to learn than the firearms proficiency part.

Public Safety committee  They're certainly well educated on section 25 of the Criminal Code, which outlines the use of deadly force or force that might cause bodily harm, as well as on the legislation on the drawing of a firearm, etc., that's contained in the Ontario Police Services Act. They're examined on that.

Public Safety committee  There are always people at these border points in various lanes of traffic, but the risk would be less than if they got into the city of Cornwall and pulled into a school area or a mall where there were hundreds and hundreds of cars parked. That was our experience there at the time.

Public Safety committee  That's certainly a possibility. Not all of the contraband comes right through the customs ports. Sometimes it comes to shores in boats along the Cornwall area, outside of Cornwall, Morrisburg and all through that area. So that is a possibility.

Public Safety committee  Yes, sir, we do. There's a variety of different situations with varying types of light and darkness, where officers have to shoot from behind barricades, shoot from a kneeling position, shoot from a lying position, standing with barricades to the right, standing with barricades to the left--a variety of situations.

Public Safety committee  If there's money in it, and I assume there is, organized crime will be involved. Anywhere there are profits to be made with a minimum of risk...and traditionally, smuggling hasn't been a really risky business for some of these individuals. The millions and millions of dollars of goods we seized in Cornwall in those years in the nineties, when we had the specific taskforce in place, probably were just a small percentage of what was actually getting through.

Public Safety committee  Sure. There are a couple of things I'd like to comment on there. The deterrent effect may or may not be there on actually smuggling goods into Canada, whether or not the guards are armed. But it would only make sense that it might deter any aggressive action being taken against the customs officers, although not always, because people take aggressive action against police officers who are armed too.

Public Safety committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. It is an honour and a distinct pleasure for me to appear before you here today representing OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino. He sends his regrets, but unfortunately he had other commitments that prevented him from personally attending here today.