Public Accounts committee  I guess success with respect to morale is that people feel that they are operating in an organization that respects them, that provides them with the scope for them to carry out their responsibilities, that supports them with training, that has appropriate mechanisms for them to come forward, without fear of suffering negative consequences, with information with respect to where individuals or the organization fail to live up to the values.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, maybe I could clarify one of the things I said, which you just referred to. I indicated, or meant to indicate, that I didn't see any major structural change being introduced prior to the report of the task force, but that's not to say that we are standing still or can stand still.

Public Accounts committee  I think we should have a regime in which people who take actions--or fail to take actions--that justify dismissal should be able to be dismissed expeditiously.

Public Accounts committee  My background includes the beginning of my professional career as a defence counsel. Certainly everyone is entitled to due process. I'm not suggesting that “expeditious” means you shouldn't have due process. People need to be able to provide fair answer and defence. The government has taken a number of steps to provide a mechanism, external to government departments and agencies, that will protect whistle-blowers and people who come forth with information.

Public Accounts committee  That's a very broad question.

Public Accounts committee  The issue of ethics is certainly very much front and centre. I think you heard from Assistant Commissioner Conlin yesterday that we do provide training, both to cadets and entry officers, on ethics. I think we need to reinforce the ethics and values of the organization. In fact, I've just signed off a communication in relation to that.

Public Accounts committee  I'm reminded of an interesting exchange I had with a former minister of the Crown in Mr. Chrétien's government, in which I indicated that my role was not to protect the minister but to protect the Canadian public. I think my job as a bureaucrat is to provide frank advice to the ministers and the government that I serve, and I try to do that to the best of my ability.

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Chairman, I don't think it's appropriate for me to indicate on what matters I did or did not provide advice to the Prime Minister.

Public Accounts committee  I was with the minister when he made the announcement on behalf of the Prime Minister. Since the day the announcement was made, I've spoken with the minister by phone once and I saw him in person twice.

Public Accounts committee  Actually...I'm sorry; you remind me I saw the minister one additional time. He and I met with the Prime Minister. That's the only dealing I've had with the Prime Minister; it was in the week intervening between the announcement being made public and my assuming office on July 16.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I should clarify. I hate to be bureaucratic on you, but I was in fact the associate deputy minister, not the deputy minister. And I did deal with former Commissioner Zaccardelli, including in the context of his dealings with the minister.

Public Accounts committee  I will say the following. Mr. Day is certainly very respectful of the independent role of the police. In very many cases it is quite clear where that role begins and ends, and in other cases it is less clear. I am not in a position to talk about the specifics of situations or the number of situations in which those issues arose, but I would say that Mr.

Public Accounts committee  Certainly there were discussions about issues relating to the RCMP while I was national security adviser both to Prime Minister Martin and then subsequently to Prime Minister Harper. The O'Connor inquiry was going on. I don't recall the matters that the committee is seized with today being the subject of discussions.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you very much. I must say that when I indicated I was struck by the positive response I have received, that applies not only to members serving in detachments in other places across the country, but also to the senior executive. There have been a number of changes to the senior executive in the last while under Commissioner Busson's tenure and subsequently.

Public Accounts committee  I would certainly agree with the premise of your question. We need to have mechanisms and processes in place to support the kind of culture that I referred to in my opening comments, a culture of fairness and respect. It should not only be dependent on individuals. Of course, you need to have individuals who both believe in and live out the values of the organization, and you need to have structures and processes that support those values.