Public Accounts committee  As national president, my full-time job is made up of primarily three things. I go and listen to what my members have to say. What are their issues and what are the problems they are facing? I interact with senior management to see what's going on and how we can resolve their issues.

Public Accounts committee  It depends on the department. Generally speaking, we try to have a positive relationship with senior leaders. Overall, if something were to arise as an issue with our members, we know that if we escalate it, generally speaking it will get resolved, the key word there being “generally”.

Public Accounts committee  We need better measures to protect whistle-blowers. If only we could see more positive cases of someone speaking up instead of having to sacrifice their career. Also, mental wellness is not good. There's financial instability because they had to change departments. We need more examples of people who did the right thing and it ended in a favourable situation, but too often—you'll hear this in the media all the time—someone spoke up and their life became a living hell.

Public Accounts committee  It's not our role to look into the lack of standards. Generally speaking, the Financial Administration Act, when it's followed, works very well. Internal control is only good if it's followed across the board. I don't want to make this point, but we're talking about the CBSA. If you're trying to secure the border and you put border officers all across the border, but once a month there's a free-for-all, it defeats the whole purpose.

Public Accounts committee  For our members, I can tell you that working remotely is something we're able to do. The majority of our members are working with numbers, spreadsheets and audits. This is something we can do remotely, and I think we've shown for the past two years that it has not only worked well but increased productivity because they're able to really focus in and get the work done.

Public Accounts committee  Of course. I am the national president of the Association of Canadian Financial Officers. I don't work at CBSA, but we have members there. I spoke with my team to find out whether any of our members had concerns they wanted to share with us. I wasn't surprised to hear that the answer was no.

Public Accounts committee  No, they have not. However, I think it's because they know not to push too hard. Look at the stories we hear in the media about what happens to whistle-blowers. Remember, the majority of our members are accountants, and they have a code of conduct with an obligation to raise anomalies.

Public Accounts committee  Often, when people want a project to go forward, our members can be seen as barriers, as sticks in people's wheels, as if finance and accountants are not conducive; they're not helping. They ask how they can bypass them and say, “We know what we want to do, so let's get the results.”

Public Accounts committee  Certainly. We represent accountants, comptrollers and anyone who works in finance or audit. They're primarily our members. We have 7,000 members across Canada in over 70 departments.

Public Accounts committee  There are over 70 of them. It would probably be easier for me to name the departments that we don't represent.

Public Accounts committee  I'm sorry. There are 70 departments.

Public Accounts committee  We don't have the exact details, and I can tell you why. Our members are afraid. In preparation for this committee appearance, we sent out a survey urgently last Friday to hear from them. The survey was anonymous. People gave us information, but they didn't want to give us their names.

Public Accounts committee  It depends on which level they're at. Generally speaking, we always advise our members to raise it to their immediate supervisor, and most often that wouldn't be the CFO. It could be people at various levels. That said, I've been president since 2016. When a member tells me they've seen wrongdoing, I will tell them to raise it, document it and then let it go.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. My name is Dany Richard. I am the president for the Association of Canadian Financial Officers. We are North America’s largest union that exclusively represents accountants, comptrollers, auditors and other financial professionals.

Public Accounts committee  I was an accountant for the federal government for 10 years, and I, personally, saw how a proper financial framework can help to ensure that every taxpayer dollar is taken into account and put to good use. While I'm disappointed by the report findings, I cannot say I'm surprised.