Canada-China Relations committee  It seems to me that before announcing that a rapporteur had been appointed, the government could have made sure that all parties in Parliament agreed on the choice of the rapporteur and all agreed on the rapporteur's impartiality. Unfortunately, the government chose to do things differently, as was the case for the study done by the National Security and Intelligence Committee of Parliamentarians, or NSICOP.

Canada-China Relations committee  Investigations are only useful if you can actually prosecute in the end.

Canada-China Relations committee  We can have investigations for years it seems in this country and they never seem to lead to any successful conclusion.

Canada-China Relations committee  I would like to see some indictments. We have been investigating the Winnipeg lab for three and half years.

Canada-China Relations committee  That is not what I suggested because the RCMP has publicly stated that there are.

Canada-China Relations committee  We have evidence of indictments in the United States. I would like to see evidence of indictments in Canada and successful prosecution. That's the litmus test.

Canada-China Relations committee  The object of criminal intelligence is to lead to successful prosecution. We would like to see more—

Canada-China Relations committee  It appears that the government does not seem too concerned about being left out of AUKUS.

Canada-China Relations committee  Of course we want to conduct our own and sovereign foreign policy, but yes, I think we can see concerns on national security, intelligence and defence matters across the spectrum, including by the U.S. ambassador.

Canada-China Relations committee  Well, as I pointed out in my op-ed in The Globe, in the U.S. the Secretary of State very clearly called out the violation of international law and unacceptable conduct. In Canada we called in the Chinese ambassador, and that was everything we heard about it. The official word—

Canada-China Relations committee  I think I lay out considerable differences in the way we dealt with them in the two countries publicly.

Canada-China Relations committee  The public communication was very different in the two countries by—

Canada-China Relations committee  There is certainly a more robust capacity in the United States to investigate such matters.

Canada-China Relations committee  We see actual investigations in the United States and unsealed indictments.

Canada-China Relations committee  I would say that sowing chaos and undermining trust is more a function of polarization, more closely associated with misinformation and disinformation than foreign interference. Although foreign interference can, of course, support it, I think that's obfuscating the problem. Look at Australia.