Procedure and House Affairs committee  The comparison is really important. America is our greatest economic partner, and they have about 80 diplomats here in Canada, so there are twice as many Chinese and we have a trade deficit with China. Where is the mistake coming from? My speculation as an investigator is that unfortunately at Foreign Affairs—or Global Affairs today—we have some people working naively and non-intentionally—or maybe intentionally—on behalf of China.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  It's a step in the right direction. It's not enough, and that's why I'm suggesting that we cut the number of diplomats in place here in Canada. There's no reason to have so many diplomats from a country that doesn't want to do business with us. We have a trade deficit. We sold a company, Nexen, in Alberta for $15 billion.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I say jail time. We're close to treason here, literally, so I say jail time. Now, the amount of the jail time would be judged by jurisprudence and by our system, but definitely jail time—not a fine and no suspended sentences or anything of that nature.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Thank you for asking. We aren't certain whether the source is from CSIS or another organization from the extensive family of Canada's security and intelligence services. In any event, the person who triggered all this information created a historic event. We wouldn't be talking to one another here today without the whistle-blower and everything I've witnessed over the past 30 years.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  It was my pleasure.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  This is a conservative number.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  This is a conservative number, 70%.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I have three lines left.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Finally, reduce the number of Chinese diplomats in Canada. It is estimated that 70% of the current staff are performing illegal intelligence duties in Canada. Remember that every week that passes by weakens the Canadian public's trust in our system and our government's ability or determination to do something.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  To keep things as concise as possible, I've deleted a few paragraphs from the speaking notes I gave to the interpreters. So I trust they will be able to keep up with me. Madam Chair and committee members, thank you for this opportunity to give you my thoughts and analyses based on 30 years of work, research, investigations and analyses of Chinese intelligence activities in Canada.

Information & Ethics committee  The only way the inquiry would be beneficial is if we make sure that it doesn't turn into a partisan fight in a ring. If we are capable, just like my colleague Artur has mentioned, of bringing more transparency, it will bring greater awareness and greater warning to the population, and demonstrate the sizable threat that we are currently facing.

Information & Ethics committee  Very quickly, I think it's a problem of culture. It was mentioned by my colleagues. For too long, Canadian governments have not developed the culture of security to warn the general population or elected officials of the temptations or danger that they will be facing. If you have access to power, you become a target.

Information & Ethics committee  I can't say exactly where the information is coming from. I agree with Mr. Stanton that the information may have been collected by someone in the wider security and intelligence community. It is difficult to answer that.

Information & Ethics committee  Basically, what we know and what we realize is that we have foreign agents and even diplomats engaging in foreign intelligence activities who are capable of identifying and maybe even farming out individuals who will be capable of simply positioning themselves. The concept of infiltrating a mole into either an intelligence service or a government is very old.

Information & Ethics committee  There are many different operations that have been done. It is the concept of having agents of influence capable of guiding or misguiding certain individuals. Back in 1995, for example, I was working on a specific file called Project Sidewinder. I discovered that Elections Canada had found out that the Embassy of China was that year giving money to the Liberal Party and the Conservative Party at the same time, because they were going to nourish influence within those political parties.