Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  It depends completely on how much we do domestically. If we have a really strong domestic program that reduces emissions—Obviously the industrial sector is a big component, but it also involves vehicles. It also involves working with the provinces for buildings and urban land use, agriculture, waste.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  The cost to whom?

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  In terms of cost to government, again, it depends on how much we do domestically. If we have reasonably aggressive policies to reduce emissions domestically, then we'd probably have to buy somewhere in the order of 100 megatonnes a year internationally, which, depending on where these credits come from, could be somewhere between $1 billion a year to possibly as much as $2 billion a year.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Using those numbers, if you improve your intensity by 30% but have even a doubling of production from the tar sands, you have an increase in greenhouse gas emissions. If you go to three, four, or five times what it is now, then you have a significant increase in greenhouse gas emissions.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Absolutely, yes.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  There are two answers to that. One is that they are not forced to. So when a company looks at what it's going to invest in, is it going to invest in revenue-neutral emission reductions or in the production of more oil and gas that will produce profits? From a business point of view, from a bottom-line point of view, it makes more sense if there are no constraints on its operations from a climate change perspective to continue to invest in greater production.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  With respect to financing for the development of technologies, in the past the OECD and the Commissioner of the Environment have said that those kinds of incentive financing options can play a part in dealing with climate change, but that Canada has relied much too heavily on them and needs to move toward regulations and financial disincentives as well.

Bill C-30 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk to this committee. Obviously air pollution is a serious problem in Canada. Smog has important health impacts. Everyone has seen the studies of thousands of Canadians who have died prematurely from smog in Canada.