National Defence committee  The answer is that you cannot have a surplus and use the surplus to hire class B people.

National Defence committee  Oui. Une bonne question. To add another complexity to this whole issue is that anyone who owns a budget has the authority to actually establish a class B position. Why? Because they have the money to do it. Clearly they're going to have to show the person they work for that there is a need for the position.

National Defence committee  Remember, it comes back to the length of the contract. Contracts can be one year, two years or three years in length. In many cases, the time is driven in part by how much money you have. If you have enough money for three years, then in that case, you may want a three-year contract.

National Defence committee  Yes, on that issue, I got myself in a little bit of hot water here with the Canadian Forces because I exceeded my targets by 1,000. It's good news on the one hand, but I have to slow it down a little bit. We have had so many Canadians come to the door at all ages saying that they wanted to join the forces.

National Defence committee  On the regular force side, I need to hire another 2,000 to achieve the government's direction policy as part of the Canada First defence strategy. Remember, I could do that tomorrow morning. As probably many members of the committee are not aware, we have 30,000 folks who actually apply.

National Defence committee  I think as in everything.... Is that possible? Yes, in life, anything is possible. Yes. Everything is possible. Could someone...? I personally don't know anyone who has gamed in the system as laid out in the question. Everyone in the Canadian Forces is very aware that the number of class B employment opportunities is going down.

National Defence committee  The reason I emphasized that particular area is because it's an area I think has gone unnoticed. I think part of the issue is raising the question as to whether this is something happening only at the top. The message is that it's happening right across, and it's probably like a pyramid when you take a look at the numbers.

National Defence committee  Thank you very much. To answer your last question, I don't know anyone who's gaming the system. I'll tell you that to start with. I think if you're gaming the system you're not only being unfair to yourself and the Canadian Forces, but also to that position, because you haven't hired the best person for the job and that actually is having a detrimental effect on the Canadian Forces.

National Defence committee  Remember, when you speak to the issue of the gap with the baby boomers, it's across all rank levels. Baby boomers are not just parliamentarians or senior people in the Canadian Forces. It's different here, but in the Canadian Forces it covers the entire swath of the Canadian Forces.

National Defence committee  Yes. That's a fair question. There are two issues. One, I know you actually qualify in this group, because I've looked at your bio.

National Defence committee  You could still enroll: we take people up to 52. We actually have recruits at the recruit school in Saint-Jean who Monsieur Bachand has met who are 50, 51, and 52. They change the dynamic of the recruiting system dramatically. So you're right, we have people coming through, and that in itself is presenting its own challenges.

National Defence committee  No, you can't.

National Defence committee  Agreed. As mentioned, Afghanistan is one of the reasons. The other one is the transformation expanding the forces. But the operational tempo at the highest level.... Remember, as parliamentarians, you not only demand for me to talk to this issue; you demand for me to have effective oversight of my organization.

National Defence committee  Agreed. And that was my same view when I saw the words “double-dipping” first used in the press. First, it is allowed. It follows the Treasury Board regulations. I've looked at the issue in detail, because someone did ask me whether I could turn to someone and say, “You cannot get your pension as long as you have this job”.

National Defence committee  Yes.