National Defence committee  I can't comment on that. Obviously, if you have a piece of equipment, you use that piece of equipment as best you can. Once it's there, it's there. I am suggesting that when you go about an open, fair, and transparent process, you limit the likelihood of finding yourself buying something that isn't consistent with the role you've foreseen for the forces.

National Defence committee  I don't think there's any set answer. They would be at risk in terms of moving to the production phase, because that's what section 7.3 says. Whether they would lose it, that's quite possible. Whether they'd be still given attention because they're producing this good or product in such a cost-effective way, that's also possible.

National Defence committee  Well, that's absolutely not true. I mean, section 7.4--

National Defence committee  No. I'm saying it's easy to say something, but the agreement basically says that any country that is participating in this agreement has to ensure, and the contractors have to ensure, that their companies have full access to all contract opportunities. So to suggest that is not the case is saying that somehow they are not going to abide by the terms of the contract, and that's not the case.

National Defence committee  No. Section 7.4 says that when you're undertaking any future opportunity, every participant's companies have to be provided equal opportunity to compete.

National Defence committee  You can compete the marketplace against the MOU, absolutely.

National Defence committee  Why wouldn't it?

National Defence committee  It would not at all. In fact I would argue that Boeing has an advantage. Boeing already knows the costs of this. All they would have to do, assuming they could meet their requirements, is lower their price and they'd win.

National Defence committee  Well?

National Defence committee  Well, if I use the government's figures, at a minimum, I think that of the $9 billion they're saying that $5 billion are attributable to the actual acquisition and $4 billion are for other stuff. I don't know if it's $5 billion or whatever it is. Plus, they're arguing that it's another $7 billion for....

National Defence committee  No, you're incorrect.

National Defence committee  That is how it's valued.

National Defence committee  No, you're wrong. You're wrong.

National Defence committee  When we bought the latest helicopters, okay, for $5 billion, that included the initial cost of a couple of billion dollars and ongoing support for $3 billion, and the total IRB was $5 billion.

National Defence committee  No, no, no. That wasn't what was realized. That was what was demanded by the IRBs policy and what was delivered by all of the bidders.