Declaration of Emergency committee  I'd have to go back and look at the Ontario order, but I think mostly it significantly increased some fines. I think they were having, from what I saw, difficulty applying fines in Ontario, and it didn't seem to get people out of there.

Declaration of Emergency committee  They weren't making a difference. People were not leaving.

Declaration of Emergency committee  I don't have a list of what the Ontario government did or what the Ottawa Police Service did, but I know that a lot of charges have been laid and are still before the courts.

Declaration of Emergency committee  That would not be something the Department of Justice would be considering. It would be something that another minister of the Crown would be considering.

Declaration of Emergency committee  Yes. I believe they were ineffective. That's why the government had to take some extra measures.

Declaration of Emergency committee  I'm sorry. Can you repeat that?

Declaration of Emergency committee  Yes, we were concerned about the border. As well, our American colleagues were wondering what was going on at the border.

Declaration of Emergency committee  First, this is an emergencies law, which implies that there is an emergency. The government will have to react quickly. Reasonable grounds doesn't mean that you don't need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. As long as the evidence that you have provides reasonable grounds that an emergency exists, and that emergency is described in section 3, that then allows the government to take some measures to deal with the emergency and to amend them later on.

Declaration of Emergency committee  We were consulted about various situations. For example, we were consulted when the police tried to move a truck, when there were children in it. The police could not use their powers to move the truck, because there was a dangerous situation.

Declaration of Emergency committee  Yes, we consulted the Criminal Code. The RCMP and the other police forces also referred to it and tried to enforce it. We also spoke with Ontario to find out the extent to which the Highway Traffic Act could or couldn't be enforced.

Declaration of Emergency committee  In light of what we saw, it was very difficult to enforce it.

Declaration of Emergency committee  You would have to ask them, because I wasn't told why they weren't able to do it. I gave you the example of the truck that was parked where it shouldn't be and when an attempt was made to move it. When the police approached the truck, they saw that there were children inside it.

Declaration of Emergency committee  Yes, but we were surprised by the situation. So a new plan had to be developed. When the police returned to the location, they were accompanied by children's services representatives.

Declaration of Emergency committee  I am.

Declaration of Emergency committee  In answer to that question I would point out that we don't have to meet (a), (b), (c) and (d) in order to invoke the Emergencies Act. We only need to meet one of those. The one that the government seized on was paragraph 2(c), which talks about threats of violence to people and goods.