Industry committee  Should we in Canada have a change in philosophy? I believe we should get more intense about the issue of security of supply of petroleum products, yes.

Industry committee  Those are retail prices?

Industry committee  So they're probably retail prices generally.

Industry committee  Your chart shows a flat line across those different countries.

Industry committee  Absolutely. On wholesale rack prices, I can absolutely provide you with those data.

Industry committee  Yes.

Industry committee  The cost of crude plus the refining margin gives you the wholesale price. Wholesale prices in Canada are higher than in the United States.

Industry committee  I certainly can. I can't comment on your numbers, because they're not corroborating with my numbers.

Industry committee  When I'm talking about wholesale price differences between Canada and the U.S., what I'm talking about is pennies a litre. We're not suggesting that Canada's wholesale prices are 30¢ a litre higher than those in the United States. They're not; they're within 6¢ to 8¢ a litre of prices in the United States.

Industry committee  Sure.

Industry committee  Do you mean what would be an excessive level of profit for the refineries?

Industry committee  It's interesting that you say “excessive”. Maybe Sonia can answer this. I don't think making money is evil, but there is a level of profit that.... The main thing here is that consumers understand where the profit is being made. Our members, the retailers, are often assigned that blame, and it's not retailers who are making the money; refiners are making the money.

Industry committee  Regulating the wholesale price of gasoline, in other words. There is some intervention there that's possible, I would say. The big danger of regulating at the wholesale level...perhaps you recall electricity regulation in California. Intervention has to be done extremely carefully when you're regulating the price of a commodity; otherwise you will interrupt supply.

Industry committee  Independent or not, we need more supply. It would certainly help if we had more suppliers, because that implies more competition. So more supply, more competition, more ability, more infrastructure. If those things can happen, more supply can come in.

Industry committee  It is.