Public Accounts committee  I don't know. I looked for the contribution agreement between the government and the foundation online and I came across, rather, the agreement between the foundation and the students, but other than that, I don't know anything about it.

Public Accounts committee  I'm going to speak on what I know, but I'm not the authority on this. I did see Mr. Knubley's testimony before the committee earlier in the week, and I would just add a precision to the way he characterized the status of the foundation. He said that it was within the portfolio of the industry department.

Public Accounts committee  I had known Mr. Kakfwi before when he was premier of the NWT. I think he was at the St. John's meeting I mentioned.

Public Accounts committee  Only what I heard you raise at the committee. I'm not aware of anything more.

Public Accounts committee  The most oft-stated words since COVID have been, “You have to unmute.” Thank you, Mr. Chair. I worked in the public service for over 30 years. I was appointed to the rank of deputy minister by Prime Minister Mulroney, then served as Clerk of the Privy Council under Prime Minister Chrétien.

Public Safety committee  I don't have a straightforward answer for you. I should tell you that I ended my report to the government on this issue by underscoring the importance of the quality of the people they appoint. I don't have a model in mind, but I would say that an indolent, too-relaxed chairman would not be helpful.

Public Safety committee  I'm not surprised it took so long, but as I told Mr. Shipley, I think the other bodies were much more important. It's understandable why this legislation was overlooked in relation to the legislation establishing those other bodies. Restoring public trust is the keystone of all those legislative measures.

Public Safety committee  I don't have an opinion on that, since I haven't looked into the issue of adequate resources yet. It comes back to the agency's objectives. The agency enforces nearly one hundred pieces of legislation. As I mentioned, those measures involve everything from the Canadian Wildlife Service and Fisheries and Oceans Canada to Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, so it's a lot more complex than it seems.

Public Safety committee  I come back to something Mr. Shipley raised. Should the agency make it clear to people that they have the right to complain? The answer is yes, but there's also an outreach that should be undertaken from the agency to those communities, and we've seen this. CSIS has a consultative forum with some of the Nordic communities, and it's something that builds trust and confidence.

Public Safety committee  I'm sure I am less frustrated than you are, sir. The only point I would make is that Ms. Damoff made reference to NSIRA and to NSICOP. I think those were more important, quite frankly.

Public Safety committee  I would say it largely does. There are small points that I would do slightly differently, but the only thing I see as a gap is that point about the commission instituting new reviews.

Public Safety committee  There is not, really. I'm assuming this is not the last time that Parliament will deal with this, and five years from now or 10 years from now, you'll be able to assess if this has been good, and what's missing.

Public Safety committee  I think that's possible and probably desirable, but it's an administrative decision of the agency. I wouldn't put it into law.

Public Safety committee  Nothing comes to mind, I'm afraid. I think the principles of the machinery of government and accountability point to the problem of offloading that responsibility. There are examples—and none come to mind at the moment—of how an agency that was having oversight.... I make a distinction between review and oversight.

Public Safety committee  Well, Mr. Julian, I'm tempted to tell you that it was magic, but I know that won't suffice. I think criteria were applied. We looked at the demand and thought about what supply was required. Each of the departments had to then justify the resources. In this case you would expect that CBSA would have gone to the Treasury Board Secretariat, which then would have taken it to the Treasury Board, to ministers, to look at the kinds of requirements and demands there would be.