Public Accounts committee  The motivation was that by going to Public Works—Public Works is where we usually do a lot of contracting, and they're tough to work with. So we would have expected Public Works to do their job. In this case they did not.

Public Accounts committee  No, we had no reason to write a letter to Public Works.

Public Accounts committee  Because Public Works is very tough, and usually they do their due diligence and they follow the rules. In this case, they did not, and the problem there was that.... You've only talked to one person in Public Works. Maybe you want to talk to some of the other people in CAC on why

Public Accounts committee  We did not know it was going on.

Public Accounts committee  When he went to Public Works, we expected Public Works to do their due diligence, as they usually do. In this case, there was something wrong in CAC.

Public Accounts committee  We didn't know. We only found out afterwards, the same way everybody else did.

Public Accounts committee  Are you talking about ATIP?

Public Accounts committee  I'd like to answer that. I didn't get a chance to before. In ATIP, what happened there is that, as I told you, we got this two feet of paper, which included claims plus a whole lot of receipts. It came from the commissioner's office, and he asked me, “Is this what we do?” I sai

Public Accounts committee  No, after I checked, it was a lot less than that.

Public Accounts committee  I think it was around—I forget—around $5,000 or $10,000.

Public Accounts committee  Anything else had to go through the contracting shop.

Public Accounts committee  My whole career? Yes.

Public Accounts committee  I explained that before, sir.

Public Accounts committee  First of all, I mentioned before that Mr. Crupi didn't work for me. He worked for HR.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you. Well, first of all, I'm sure we had that meeting, but I don't remember it. And I have a pretty good memory. But anyway—