Public Safety committee  As long as it's not coerced, yes.

Public Safety committee  Of course, we would love to see no drugs in the prisons, including many of the legal drugs that are pumped into prisoners. I think we should take a lesson from what some of the schools have done. They recognize that when you have drugs in a community, they're likely to be introduced.

Public Safety committee  No, it doesn't. It doesn't say it has to be for sexual needs or gratification. It's something that can be seen as sexually demeaning and is not consensual.

Public Safety committee  You can be coerced into complying, which you definitely are if you're a prisoner.

Public Safety committee  In the prison what is supposed to happen is that if someone is seen as a potential risk, they are asked.... In every case that I'm aware of, if somebody is believed to be carrying drugs, the police will be called immediately. The person will be detained and the police will then deal with it.

Public Safety committee  Thank you for asking for clarification because I can see where the logic would be elusive. In terms of the drug interdiction methods, it has meant that, as Dr. Diane Riley predicted, more severe drugs--heroin, cocaine, PCP, and dangerous drugs as well--were being introduced in order to make it easier to conceal, both in terms of masking drugs and for getting drugs into the institution.

Public Safety committee  Yes, and the overcrowding does increase that likelihood.

Public Safety committee  I apologize as well because I need to speak in English. When we looked at what was planned for the women's prisons, particularly the programs—and I'll talk about drug treatment in particular, because obviously that's what you're concerned with—it was thought that we ought not to have a cookie-cutter approach, with one type of program such as now exists for women.

Public Safety committee  One of the significant recommendations made by Louise Arbour and by the Canadian Human Rights Commission in 2003 in a report they then released in 2004 was for external oversight. In particular, Louise Arbour talked of the need for judicial oversight of situations where correctional treatment interfered with the administration of a just and fair sentence, and to administer when the rule of--

Public Safety committee  I think that already does happen. Again, I'd question the validity of the information you're receiving. I just had a situation last week where I was called by one of our advocates for women who were presumed to be part of receiving drugs that never arrived, and one went from minimum security to maximum security.

Public Safety committee  Do you mean someone who's trafficking in drugs?

Public Safety committee  If it's someone with addictions, absolutely. We see it many times over, and in many families—it would be the rare family in this country that doesn't have someone with addiction issues in its midst, whether or not the family acknowledges it. Certainly, whether it's NA, AA, or many of the other self-help programs, they're premised on the fact that people can and do change.

Public Safety committee  I would agree. I think we've seen a trajectory in that direction much faster for women, because women have been the fastest growing prison population, particularly indigenous women and women with mental health issues, for some time now. We've been seeing the massive overcrowding already happening in the women's prisons, and that's only likely to increase.

Public Safety committee  I'm sorry, I'm not sure where you got that information. The police are called immediately. People are subject to charges. They're charged with trafficking. Every case I'm aware of where someone is known to have brought drugs in, there have been charges. Again, if you have evidence that there are other situations, I would love to hear about them.

Public Safety committee  It's likely a bit beyond the purview, although it isn't if you're looking more broadly within this committee at sentencing options—certainly Catherine would be much more familiar, from her vast experience in youth issues as well—but one of the areas we know has worked very well is when you have someone with addiction issues and a sentencing opportunity that provides for them to go into secure treatment types of facilities, there is far greater success then sending them into a prison setting.