Health committee  No. It would really be guessing. There are horror stories on both sides, from patients and from family and friends—and co-workers too. We just need more data.

Health committee  Yes, and the new and upcoming one is home care.

Health committee  Thank you for bringing up the World Health Organization, but also, this June, the ILO, the International Labour Organization is looking at a convention on violence in the workplace, and health care workers, and a gender analysis is being used. We have the federal, provincial and territorial governments, unions and employers who are going to be there debating that.

Health committee  Yes. Like anywhere else in society, when you're racialized, it is even more dangerous. That's the discrimination that exists, sadly, everywhere. In home care, that's where we see a lot of nurses of all categories go because they haven't found a job in the acute care sector. They go and work alone in home care, and it's disastrous there, from what we hear.

Health committee  Yes. We need data, and it's one of our recommendations, but we can't wait for it. I saw a 1,200% increase in violent incidents in the city of Winnipeg. Sorry, we can't wait. What the federal government can do is push forward the best practices. They do exist, as I mentioned, at the Michael Garron Hospital.

Health committee  I totally agree.

Health committee  We have to take it out of the hands of health care workers. If a health care worker or a nurse gets injured due to violence, and the patient or family member, whoever attacks—the accused—breaks hospital equipment, the hospital will put a charge against them to recoup the hospital equipment, but will not help the health care worker bring a charge.

Health committee  Sorry, could you repeat? I didn't hear.

Health committee  With all due respect, I'm far from a security expert so it is whatever the security team decides. One thing they've been asking us is flagging. We need to flag patients who have violent history, patients who have family members who have a violent history. It's a very taboo thing in health care, I think you'd agree, because am I going to pull a purple dot.

Health committee  I totally agree, and it's a question of staffing too. You have to have enough people to take care of the sick. Especially if violence is related as a medical symptom, you need trained people there.

Health committee  We only had one hospital in Ontario where it was brought in front, and it was thrown out immediately.

Health committee  You bring up an interesting point, especially in comparing it to the private sector. The private sector puts security as number one. We don't put that security in the public sector, and far from it in health care. If you look at just Ontario, you'll see that in the recent study on benefits to Ontario health care workers due to violence, close to $5 million was paid out in the last year, so it is associated with dollars.

Health committee  Yes. If you look at Dr. Doug's region, we've seen a 1,200% increase in violence in the last five years due to crystal meth in the Winnipeg area: 1,200%.

Health committee  It's not only about intervention. It's also about having a security device on you. I'm sure Miranda could answer this too, but it's about having a security device on you. If you press a button and nobody comes...like the nurse in the regional hospital where it took 11 minutes before somebody other than her co-worker showed up.

Health committee  Yes. That's the short answer. But it has gotten worse. We saw in the 1990s a restructuring of our health care system. Now we have a very acute health care system. If they're not there, as per your witness on personal care workers, they're in the home with any help they can get. It's like a boiling pot.