Industry committee  I would leave that to National Energy Board, for example, to research. I think there are ways that we can have a percentage of the pipeline capacity available to non-owners of that pipeline, as an example, and not upset the market. In fact, it would help the market.

Industry committee  Yes, absolutely. I would go as far as saying there's a level of irresponsibility by not having that. I think it's reprehensible that we don't have consistent, or at least the ability for consistent specifications with our bordering states.

Industry committee  No, absolutely not. The specification is the same on sulphur, which is a very critical specification for gasoline. It's the same specification. It only varies in the administration, so during the fuel shortage we found that when we went to the tank to get the fuel, it was of a different quality from what we needed in Canada.

Industry committee  I've recently undertaken a study of the four Atlantic provinces that have regulated, and every province, including Quebec, has a different form of regulation with different purposes. From my research, I would say that none of the provinces undertook regulation with the intent of lowering gas prices.

Industry committee  I can't speak for the refining side of the industry; I speak for the independent marketers. I completely agree with you that there is no accountability in Canada and very little, although more, in our neighbour the United States. I would also agree with you that on a world scale, there is intervention in the free market, OPEC being the largest example of that--strategic petroleum reserve probably to a lesser extent, but certainly OPEC.

Industry committee  Rather than mandating a certain amount of refining capacity or refinement of our own crude oil, I think the level of intervention we would like to see is one that would address the accountability issue. We could go further if necessary, but I would say the first step, as a minimum, is to understand where inventories are, because that is where the rubber hits the road.

Industry committee  Sure. It's a good question, and members of our association certainly would look at that, like others in Ontario, just to use that example. More product could come into Ontario, for example. we twinned the pipeline, built a new terminal in Toronto, and those sorts of things. This takes enormous amounts of money.

Industry committee  Thank you. If we use Michael J. Ervin data, which are the data that are generally used on the Natural Resources website, statistically there is no difference between regulated markets and unregulated markets. Those who are pro-regulation will cut the data to look like it is better to have a regulated market.

Industry committee  I don't think it's a fair comparison. As an example, because of the specification issue and the fact that we could not import gasoline into Ontario during the fuel shortage, there was a 12¢ a litre discrepancy—which is huge in our industry—between the Toronto rack and the Detroit rack.

Industry committee  As I mentioned, there'll be two benefits from tracking of inventories, our association and members feel. The first is that it would increase the level of accountability. This is not an interventionist move; there are other more interventionist moves. This would at least report inventories—again, on the assumption that parliamentarians believe that petroleum products are somewhat of an essential product for consumers.

Industry committee  There are two main reasons. In the short term, product should be flooding into Ontario and the Prairies right now, and certainly should have been during that fuel shortage. But there are some restrictions on the ability to get product in, not just because it's landlocked and we can't get the large product ships in, but also because pipelines are totally controlled in this country by refiners, unlike in the United States.

Industry committee  Yes, thank you.

Industry committee  First, thank you for the invitation to address this committee on the subject of gasoline prices and refining margins. I represent independent fuel marketers in Canada. Independent fuel marketers are those who purchase fuel at the wholesale level. Independents do not refine crude oil or produce gasoline; rather, they purchase gasoline, mainly from refiners, and then sell either to a retailer or to the consumer directly via their own gas station.