Social Security System  Public concern over possible cuts in federal social housing subsidies has left us fearful that this government is no longer seeking the path to reform, but has already found it. The official opposition will never agree to allowing this government to get a handle on the deficit by strangling society's less fortunate members. Curbing the deficit by cutting social security is unacceptable in a society that for many decades has defined itself as just and fair, a good place to live.

Social Security System  Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for an interesting speech. The member shows great concern for people caught in the poverty trap and that is exactly what all of us have a concern for here. I would like to ask the member a question. I wonder if the member is familiar with a program that has been running in New York state which has saved the taxpayers about $21 million over the last few years while at the same time finding positions for people who have been on the welfare roles for a number of years.

Social Security System  Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to take a few moments this afternoon to discuss the reform of Canada's social security system. Given your role here in this House you are of course non partisan, but you will remember clearly that, during the last election campaign, our party made a commitment to the people of Canada.

Social Security System  That is an excellent question from the hon. member. We look at it this way. If we are able to reduce the cost of government, people will have more money in their pockets to pay for some of their services. There is a direct relationship between the reduction of the cost of government and being able to pay for some of one's own needs.

Social Security System  Perhaps I could start my own speech if it is appropriate or if Mr. Speaker permits I could ask a question of the hon. member.

Social Security System  I wish to ask the hon. member how he sees the study that is going to take place with regard to human resource development. Does the hon. member see the targeting of programs for those who are need or does he see it in terms of the philosophy of the government approaching the responsibility of human resource development, social services and other related programs on a broader budget basis?

Social Security System  Mr. Speaker, I want to thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to enter into this debate. First of all I would like to congratulate the member for Elgin-Norfolk. I can sympathize with him in making his first speech in the humble assembly that is here. I can recall my first week in the Alberta legislature.

Social Security System  Mr. Speaker, I welcome the member's comments. The hon. member expressed his views. He explained for me exactly why we are here in this House to debate. The member for Vancouver Centre questioned why we were here to debate. She said: "What we are doing really is not having consultations together".

Social Security System  The Minister of Human Resources Development and Minister of Western Economic Diversification has informed us that he intends to hold broad public consultations on social program reform. The government has given itself two years to review social programs and make changes in a manner which, as it promised repeatedly during the election campaign, takes into account the concerns of the people.

Social Security System  Mr. Speaker, I was delighted by the comments of the hon. member. What I am about to say is not a challenge to the member in the least. She made a statement about lumping social policy and economics together. Indeed they are an interdependent coupling. My concern is the rhetorical piece that is the red book for me does not have the economic elements within it that satisfy what we must do for Canadians to get them back to work.

Social Security System  It may seem hard to understand that in 1994, this kind of problem exists, even among young people, since schooling has been compulsory for more than 50 years. In fact, today, a whole generation is paying the price of the school reforms that took place in the 60s. However, schools are not the only culprits. The current trend towards family dislocation is also to blame. Well-known authors have stressed the major impact of the family environment on the child's ability to learn to read and write.

Social Security System  What I would like to ask of members instead is that they come together with us in this endeavour, that they co-operate, that they help to consult and that they help to make the difference. People have elected us for change. They have elected all of us, the Reform Party and the Liberal Party across Canada, to help move this country forward so that we can be globally competitive and that our individual Canadians can be independent. That is what we would like members to do.

Social Security System  Mr. Speaker, it is interesting in the dialogue between political parties that we always seem to end up at the same point. During the course of this election it was very interesting to me that the Liberal candidate in my riding went out of his way to make sure that people in our constituency felt comfortable with the fact that the Liberal government would not do anything, or had no plans with respect to social programs.

Social Security System  Mr. Speaker, through our taxation system frequently there are situations where it is beneficial for our citizens to take particular actions. I cite as an example the situation I mentioned in my speech where right now under our taxation it works to a net benefit to a family to have two income earners at $30,000 rather than one income earner at $60,000 and yet the gross income before taxation is equal.

Social Security System  Mr. Speaker, in response to the hon. member's question I offer a qualified yes. I say that there must be a balance so that there is the ability for parents to choose what is best for their children. If in fact a child tax credit is the best way to go about doing it or the measure that he had suggested is the best way of going about doing it, I would support it but it is a qualified yes.