Industry committee  Yes, retailers pay the interchange. The Visa people say that the retailer doesn't pay the interchange because it is determined by Visa and MasterCard and, depending on the processor you use, it's through it that you are billed. At the end of the day, the interchange is billed directly to the merchant, including the other fees that, I think, the research attachés mentioned.

Industry committee  There's absolutely no risk. It's a real-time transfer of someone's money out of his or her bank account to pay for the purchase. All the people involved in the transaction are paid immediately. If the money is not available in the customer's bank account, the transaction is declined.

Finance committee  You have two documents that contradict each other; is that correct? You're asking me which one is true.

Finance committee  Yes, retailers pay the interchange. The Visa people say that the retailer doesn't pay the interchange because it is determined by Visa and MasterCard and, depending on the processor you use, it's through it that you are billed. At the end of the day, the interchange is billed directly to the merchant, including the other fees that, I think, the research attachés mentioned.

Finance committee  There's absolutely no risk. It's a real-time transfer of someone's money out of his or her bank account to pay for the purchase. All the people involved in the transaction are paid immediately. If the money is not available in the customer's bank account, the transaction is declined.

Industry committee  You are correct.

Industry committee  Thank you. There are several concerns. The first one, which we mentioned earlier, is that we believe the debit system is a Canadian system. You're going into Canadian consumers' banking accounts. It should be regulated under the CPA or a similar agency, as it is currently. And at the end of the day, it should be a flat fee, and it should reflect the cost of the transaction, with a normal return on investment.

Finance committee  You are correct.

Finance committee  Thank you. There are several concerns. The first one, which we mentioned earlier, is that we believe the debit system is a Canadian system. You're going into Canadian consumers' banking accounts. It should be regulated under the CPA or a similar agency, as it is currently. And at the end of the day, it should be a flat fee, and it should reflect the cost of the transaction, with a normal return on investment.

Industry committee  It's all of the above. When we surveyed our small to mid-sized merchants as well as our coalition members, the same survey results came back. The only way we stay afloat is, as Catherine mentioned, that if we're to remain competitive we will have to eat some of this unexpected cost.

Finance committee  It's all of the above. When we surveyed our small to mid-sized merchants as well as our coalition members, the same survey results came back. The only way we stay afloat is, as Catherine mentioned, that if we're to remain competitive we will have to eat some of this unexpected cost.

Industry committee  We're under the impression that this is exactly what we're doing right now, but I think you're asking whether we've spoken specifically to the minister. We have tried to inform the government, and we have certainly had some very productive meetings with various ministers, as well as with different MPs.

Finance committee  We're under the impression that this is exactly what we're doing right now, but I think you're asking whether we've spoken specifically to the minister. We have tried to inform the government, and we have certainly had some very productive meetings with various ministers, as well as with different MPs.

Industry committee  In fact, they are from one of our colleagues. It's from their numbers, so I'll let Madam Chayer respond, if you don't mind.

Industry committee  I'm sure there are, Mr. Rajotte. The problem is we are not clear on what all the fees are or what is charged in that bundle of fees. I think the best way to do that is to provide you with statements. We have been asking the processors to unbundle the statements so that people know what they're paying for.