Public Accounts committee  That's what we do. As an organization, you're supposed to write down the requirements. That's what Mr. Onischuk was tasked to do: write the requirements of the next contract.

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Koziol was hired to do a piece of work. He was paid; he did not get anything extra to hire Mr. Onischuk to do work. I think you're suggesting he got something extra. He did not.

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Koziol can't write his own contract. The preferred resource, as Mr. Brazeau stated, is normal practice with CAC. It's normal practice in government that you identify whether there was an incumbent. That's what I was told. That's what Mr. Brazeau has confirmed. You keep using the word “preferred”—

Public Accounts committee  I understand, and I questioned the word myself to Mr. Koziol, and I asked, “What does that mean, sir?” He explained to me exactly what Mr. Brazeau explained. Being CAC, I was in no position, not being a procurement expert, to challenge the wording.

Public Accounts committee  I don't know how to answer your question, sir. You're using the word “recommending”, and I was told that is not what “preferred” means.

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Onischuk was responsible to write statements of work and to meet with Mr. Brazeau, if that was required, to explain them. That's what Mr. Onischuk's job was.

Public Accounts committee  Yes. Mr. Koziol, who was originally hired to do that and other things, had too much work to do, so we engaged help—Mr. Onischuk—to help write the statements of work.

Public Accounts committee  He was assisting Mr. Koziol; Mr. Koziol was doing other work, including statements of work also. There were just too many, so we got another person in to help.

Public Accounts committee  In relation to gifts, I was directed to provide gifts by the chair of the pension advisory committee, to make sure there was an appropriate gift, so we were directed. That probably would have been through the secretary of that committee, because he did the bidding of that committee, so that would be that.

Public Accounts committee  I believe that was just a misquote, sir. It should not have ever come out of the pension fund. I have not charged the pension fund; my salary was charged to regular payroll.

Public Accounts committee  Yes. The acceptable risk was going to CAC when his procurement officials said they were too busy—I don't know the other statement that was made—to continue providing contracting services to us and to go to Public Works, who said they couldn't meet the timeframes. The acceptable risk was we had a contract with Morneau Sobeco, which was to start in March 2003, which would immediately have payments start to go to Morneau Sobeco.

Public Accounts committee  I understood there was a rule that you couldn't obtain contracts directly for a period of time. I can't recall if it's six months or a year. I think there's a rule like that.

Public Accounts committee  I don't know, from a legal perspective, how to answer your question. I imagine people are retired, and they approach consulting companies for contracts. From there, I don't really know how it works. I imagine that could happen.

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Ewanovich told me I shouldn't be signing financial authorities. He revoked financial authorities, but he said that would be the same for all his managers, because they were all having trouble with procurement. They set up a committee and a sign-off process and that sign-off process had six or seven signatures.

Public Accounts committee  I never ordered contracts; procurement would do that. The process was set up, and that was the process I advised my person, who was the procurement officer, to follow. My person followed that process, got the required signatures, and it would flow through for final authorization by Mr.