Public Safety committee  Yes, and the FTA as well. You mentioned the debate. The significant concern that so many Canadians had was that by trading more with each other, we would become each other; we would sell our culture as opposed to cultural products. The surveying that's been done since then shows that culturally we diverged in terms of our values since the free trade agreement 20 years ago.

Public Safety committee  Yes.

Public Safety committee  I think the government certainly did. Secretary Napolitano was scheduled to come to Ottawa three weeks ago. I was invited to dinner with her, among others, and I'd hoped--

Public Safety committee  Continuing representations on any issue related to border management...absolutely. But in any instance where concerns are raised, we need to respond effectively and directly.

Public Safety committee  I'll try to be quick. Change the game. That's the only way.

Public Safety committee  I think you have to go to the Americans with the Canadian proposal, Prime Minister to President, proposing a new type of partnership that's bold, that captures his imagination, and that can't be settled by bureaucrats.

Public Safety committee  I don't think we're going to achieve what we've seen in Europe in the foreseeable future. It's bizarre when you think about it. Think of the challenges in Europe compared with those in North America. The practical realities are that it's unlikely we'll be able to achieve that. But can we move to push the borders out?

Public Safety committee  In politics, perception is often more important than reality. Do I believe that we pose less of a threat to the United States than many states within the U.S. do? Yes, I do, definitely. I asked a congressmen in the United States whether he believed that his constituents would feel that any country, no matter how competent and whatever their intentions, could provide for the security of the United States as effectively as the United States itself.

Public Safety committee  I would include resources in security and criminal intelligence. If you were to ask the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff in the United States, “If you had 10,000 people or 5,000 people you could use somewhere, would you station them on the Canadian border?”, I know what the answer would be.

Public Safety committee  All of this is important and we need to continue doing it. The Canadian Chamber of Commerce, for its part, will be updating its joint report with the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, and it will be releasing new recommendations on how to improve the functioning of the border. At the end of the day, we have to pull back and assess the progress.

Public Safety committee  Yes, Mr. Davies, and thank you. That's a very thoughtful question. I think it's important that we approach the issue in a very pragmatic way and set aside ideological concerns that have historically tended to guide the relationship. In this particular instance, look at it from this perspective: does the measure we're looking at make sense?

Public Safety committee  Can I have a stab at that, Mr. Chairman? First, let me apologize for breaking your sound system. It's why when I was defence minister they didn't allow me to push any buttons. Mr. Ménard, thank you very much for that very important question. Simply put, if we continue to play the game by the rules as they're written today, we will lose.

Public Safety committee  I'm here to answer the question, Mr. Chairman.

Public Safety committee  Your question is an excellent one. I fully subscribe to Ambassador Kergin's analysis, but I suppose I would take it further as well. Your question, in which you mentioned that Canadians tend to see the border in terms of our cultural and political identity, is particularly helpful in that it drives you back to ask the fundamental question of what the border is in the 21st century.

Public Safety committee  I suspect, although I didn't have the chance to hear all of his presentation or Gilles' presentation earlier, that I would probably endorse the vast bulk of what either of them had to say. Let me take a few minutes to set out some of my thoughts and some of the chamber's thoughts with regard to where we are at the border today.