Finance committee  We don't have those stats.

Finance committee  We were in discussions with CMHC about a shared equity mortgage program, but not applied in this nature. It was more of a hand-up program for people in need of core housing, not something for a typical person in the entry-level market or a family that would normally only need basic mortgage rules, as opposed to a special program.

Finance committee  We don't have those details. We made our recommendations for a different type of program. Our recommendation with respect to typical first-time homebuyers would be 30-year insured mortgages, adjustments to the stress test, that sort of thing.

Finance committee  With respect to the shared equity mortgages, it is in fact something that CHBA has recommended to this government and to other institutions as well. We think it's a huge opportunity to help people, especially those perpetually stuck in rent, and that's where we've seen it. We did a study of programs across Canada that help people get out of perpetual rent and into home ownership, and the number one way is through shared equity mortgages.

Finance committee  Thank you, Chair. CHBA represents some 9,000 member companies from coast to coast and is the national voice of the residential construction sector. BILD Alberta is the constituent association of CHBA, and as Carmen has spoken to the specifics of Alberta, I'll speak to the housing issues on a national basis that are found in Bill C-97.

Human Resources committee  I can jump in on that. No, the numbers are not going to bear out. We've been working in schools for decades against the system and the culture of Canada because of exactly what Rick talked about. We need to change. We need to have a parity of esteem. We need people to respect both sides of the equation, and frankly, to points made earlier, right now you go get a university education and you end up having to become a skilled tradesperson anyway.

Human Resources committee  I think it's important to say first of all that in the near term you are talking about competing for immigration. That is the solution that can fix things over the near term. Over the longer term, there's no question that there are opportunities to increase productivity as well.

Human Resources committee  If there is no relief, I think you'll see some continued challenges across the country in many places. If there is no relief, the 30% drop in first-time homebuyers we've seen over the past year will continue. Things like 30-year amortization and the stress test can be adjusted at any time.

Human Resources committee  We're seeing it all across the board. I think it's more dramatic, obviously, in those parts of the country where there were already economic challenges. Certainly Saskatchewan and Alberta have big challenges. Atlantic Canada has huge challenges. Newfoundland especially has a 50% drop in starts.

Human Resources committee  I would say at this point that the best way to characterize it is that it has really overshot. You can understand why. The problem is that since 2008 and the subprime crisis, there have been over 60 changes to the financial system in recent years since then. The stress test, this last one, was probably the most dramatic of them all, while the other things were compounding.

Human Resources committee  Overall, we're looking at about 150,000 people knocked out of the market. About half of those would be first-time homebuyers, so that's about 74,000 knocked out of the market. With the types of tweaks I described, it would bring back only about two-thirds to the market overall. It's not like you're bringing everybody back in, but it would bring back about 90% of first-time buyers, who are the people who are the lowest risk in terms of arrears and who are most affected by the changes.

Human Resources committee  Absolutely. It ties into skilled labour and jobs and everything else. Our recommendations are pretty simple, at this stage. One is to return to 30-year amortization periods for insured mortgages for first-time buyers. Young people make up the group that's most affected by this right now.

Human Resources committee  I'll be able to tell you in a few hours.

Human Resources committee  We will see.

Human Resources committee  I certainly have no inside information, but certainly this will be the next opportunity to really address this. I'll be headed from here to the lock-up.