Government Operations committee  You're correct to say that I wasn't there at that time. This reflects what we said earlier, that it was thought that the system was ready to go. Obviously it wasn't. Maybe, just to answer your question—hindsight is 20/20—I can tell you how I deal with these things today. Should I have a presentation like that, I would have to be comfortable that we are in the position of being ready to go before I briefed the minister on it.

Government Operations committee  I hope I would never get to a point that I got a presentation like that and then had to go back. We're trying very hard, Les and I and Michael, our other colleague, to create a culture at PSPC—learning from Phoenix, frankly—such that the questions, the discussions will take place and that we'll be able to ask the deep questions, have those conversations, and create a safe space for employees to have a respectful workplace, a healthy workplace.

Government Operations committee  I'd like to start by saying that neither I nor Mr. Linklater was there at the time, so I will be answering based on my knowledge, which I gathered either through discussions, through reading, or through colleagues. Before I do, I just want to point out that we often forget that this pay transformation was really two projects.

Government Operations committee  There was a very short contingency plan for the transfer of the data. Immediately after wave one, if there had been problems in the data transfer, then they could have stopped. There were no problems with the data transfer. That's how the project was planned. There was no fatal issue with the data transfer.

Government Operations committee  Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm joined today by our associate deputy minister, Les Linklater. We appreciate the opportunity to appear before you to discuss the Auditor General's studies of Phoenix. Public Services and Procurement Canada accepts the Auditor General's recommendations and has taken measures to respond to them.

Government Operations committee  The one thing that we're all very focused on is minimizing this. We know it happens everywhere in the world when there's a yard.

Government Operations committee  Sorry if we made you understand that. There is a lot of work going on. There is a lot of external expertise being hired, too. We are looking at all the different options, because there are many things that influence a gap. How do these things play out? Our objective is to minimize the gaps.

Government Operations committee  We have input from a number of external parties so that we can actually make the right decision. We're not doing this in isolation; we're doing it with all the departments that are involved and the yards. It's a common objective. Everybody is focused on the same thing. It's not en vase clos du tout.

Government Operations committee  Yes, it is.

Government Operations committee  Let us look at why it wasn't. I'd like to go back and understand why, if it hasn't, because this is the first—

Government Operations committee  We'll get back to you on that, okay?

Government Operations committee  On the first part, the gaps portion, we're very mindful. We're looking at a series of projects, so it's a program that we have to manage. It's very important and we're very involved in looking at solutions. I don't know if...the costing, the dollars.

Government Operations committee  I will ask Les to complement on this, but I just want to say that we have many entries for the employees to reach.... There are many channels. All employees should get an answer, so that is not acceptable, and we'll definitely make sure we follow up on it. Les, maybe you want to add something.

Government Operations committee  We have an office of small and medium-sized enterprise. That is actually a group that we think we have underutilized and now are really wanting to reach out to the communities. We want to make sure that they understand our processes and how they can actually contribute, whether it's the procurement process or the different places where the small and medium-sized enterprises can actually connect with government.

Government Operations committee  You are very observant. We do have a quality check process; that version was corrected in 24 hours. We caught that, but not on time for the first take. We apologize.