Information & Ethics committee  And the police, and the prosecutors, and the executive part of government. This is a principle that's binding on all branches of government.

Information & Ethics committee  It's never that black or white. I think the onus should be to disclose as much as possible to formal legal processes like the police and the courts, but there may always be cases where redaction is appropriate. We're having a discussion now about the divulgation of documents involving Chinese intelligence activities within Canada.

Information & Ethics committee  The clerk has a role in deciding what cabinet confidences are released, on a case-by-case basis.

Information & Ethics committee  Legal advice to the clerk.

Information & Ethics committee  No, absolutely none.

Information & Ethics committee  No.

Information & Ethics committee  If you go back to a previous government, then the previous prime ministers have a role in whether to release documents of their ministry. Basically, you sequester the papers of each government when it leaves. I went back to Prime Minister Harper a couple of times to get his consent to release documents related to the Norman affair because it had happened while he was in office, so he gave that agreement and we turned over the documents to the clerk.

Information & Ethics committee  It's a discussion between the clerk and the Prime Minister. Ultimately, it is the clerk's job.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes.

Information & Ethics committee  There would be advice from lawyers and from people like the security intelligence people as to whether redactions were appropriate or not. I always took the view to disclose as much as possible, but you wouldn't want to disclose business confidences or intelligence services or personal names and so on.

Information & Ethics committee  I was in government for 38 years, 17 years as a deputy minister.

Information & Ethics committee  I'm not a historian. However, I think the trend line was to be for more disclosure. There was a running discussion between the Auditor General of Canada and the executive about the disclosure of documents related to the budget. I reached an agreement with the Auditor General at the time, Michael Ferguson, and I increased the disclosure of analysis documents related to the budget to the Auditor General.

Information & Ethics committee  Yes.

Information & Ethics committee  I did not understand your question. What subject are you asking about?

Information & Ethics committee  You’re asking me a broad question on a complex subject. In general, it is very important for the governance of this country, meaning the federal government’s model and that of the provinces, to ensure the confidentiality of discussions, of conversations, in the cabinet meeting room, whether they occur in person or in hybrid format.