Public Accounts committee  It's challenging, for sure. I think the directive does a very good job of outlining the requirements from all parties about the person in question and the organizations that need to subsequently follow that. I can't really comment on the oversight of that, as I've never been involved on the other side.

Public Accounts committee  I joined as a direct-admit partner.

Public Accounts committee  If I understood that correctly, I joined as a direct-admit partner in May 2020, when I joined the firm.

Public Accounts committee  Sorry, that was direct-admit partner. That was my mistake. I will slow down.

Public Accounts committee  It cut out a bit at the end, but if I understood you, you are asking about the training I took for risk....

Public Accounts committee  Thank you for the clarification. That is correct. Upon joining the firm, and subsequently on a regular basis, we continually take risk, independence, security and privacy training—all of the training.

Public Accounts committee  Obviously, we'd prefer direct procurement where possible, for sure. I can't begin to speculate on the reasons CBSA may have wanted to go that particular route.

Public Accounts committee  To my knowledge, no, but I know KPMG as a firm, as I believe we submitted in writing as well, has subcontracted for—don't quote me on this; I don't have it in front of me—I believe 13 different companies of varying sizes, from very large organizations to small. The key there is that where we can help provide expertise specifically to the government in areas that we are good at and can provide value for taxpayers, we will entertain that, yes.

Public Accounts committee  Given the position that I held in the federal public service, I was subject to the Treasury Board directive on conflict of interest, as most are. I believe they term them positions designated to be high risk for conflict of interest. What that directive states—and this is the process that I followed upon my departure—is that upon receipt of an offer of employment....

Public Accounts committee  Just to clarify, are you referring to my current job at KPMG or previously in the federal government, or both?

Public Accounts committee  Okay, thanks for clarifying. I'll separate the answer into two different answers. In the federal government, I did meet with Mr. Firth two to three times at most—like I met with several vendors—generally to discuss some offerings that he had in the security space. I met with him once virtually while at KPMG.

Public Accounts committee  The one KPMG meeting I mentioned was virtual. The two to three at most, when I was at the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat, all occurred in the lobby of 90 Elgin, which is the Treasury Board government building.

Public Accounts committee  That's correct.

Public Accounts committee  Yes, that is correct.

Public Accounts committee  Absolutely. I should say that all my answers subsequently will be directed through the chair. I'm sorry about that. While in the federal public service, many vendors reached out from time to time to explain what types of security products or services they were offering, given my role at the time was director general of cybersecurity.