Fisheries committee  Well, it's fixed gear right now. The mobile gear has a share, but the rules are that until the population of a fish hits a certain level they won't be re-entering the fishery.

Fisheries committee  Yes. Shrimp is a fairly clean fishery right now, with the Nordmore grates, which knock the groundfish out and then select only for the shrimp. There are some juveniles that have to be looked at, but there's work done to ensure that those fisheries do not cause much mortality of groundfish.

Fisheries committee  I think it's difficult because fishermen are not catching the 4,000 tonnes, obviously, and the fishery represents approximately $2 million per year. If there were a moratorium, there would be a loss of approximately $1.5 million. If we were to fish 2,000 tonnes, there would be a net gain of $2 million for fishermen.

Fisheries committee  We can suppose that if we were to maintain the catch at 2,000 tonnes, fishermen would earn approximately $1.5 million more than if a moratorium were to be imposed. However, a moratorium does not truly achieve what it sets out to do. There will still be catches even if people are not fishing for cod.

Fisheries committee  The 3NO stock is in serious trouble. It is unable to sustain the bycatch. We've been making tremendous efforts internationally and nationally to drop that bycatch. We have made real progress in doing so, but that stock can't take directed fishing. It can only take bycatch, and we have to keep that to the lowest possible level.

Fisheries committee  That's an interesting question, given that we're talking about not factoring science into it.

Fisheries committee  Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I believe science is doing its job and provides us with the best information possible under the circumstances, within the limits. You cannot expect.... There is nobody in the business of fish management around the world who has perfect advice, perfect information.

Fisheries committee  Productivity goes up and down in the ecosystem. In the past we didn't look at that and we created horrible problems when we kept fishing at one level and assumed a stable state in the ocean. We all saw the horrible costs this caused us. I think we need two things in the southern gulf.

Fisheries committee  Some of that behaviour was before the Larocque case, as I recall, and there were some opportunities to make use of that fish by the person involved. There's an old adage in fisheries management about fishing being like dipping your cup into a barrel of water: you can always fill that cup, right up to the point where you've emptied the barrel.

Fisheries committee  We reached that conclusion through the advisory process and through feedback we get from fishermen's organizations and groups. There were questions last year about why we had a fishery of 2,000 tonnes. I'd remind the committee that even at 2,000 tonnes the TAC wasn't taken--only about 75% of it was taken.

Fisheries committee  One thing I note from the RAP is that the science advice is that the spawning stock will go down no matter what we do. It will be extirpated if the trends continue over the next few decades. If we fish, we can accelerate that. If we fish 2,000 tonnes, it's expected to be extirpated within the next 20 years; if we fish 4,000 tonnes, that will accelerate it further.

Fisheries committee  I think there are elements there, yes. The real issue is the 4,000 tonnes over three years. It's not based on any kind of science. And we're making a conclusion about what the outcome of that study will be by having that fishery before we get the answer. So I think that's an element that's a bit of an issue.

Fisheries committee  We've been using three science vessels, the Needler, the Templeman, and the Teleost. And whatever vessel we use, we have to calibrate the fishing tools to actually figure out how they compare. We used to use the Needler in the southern gulf; now we're using the Teleost. And there was a period of calibration.

Fisheries committee  It will probably be announced this week, within the next few days.

Fisheries committee  Clearly, on the latter point, the scientific evidence in the southern gulf does not support maintenance of the status quo.