Procedure and House Affairs committee  Mr. Chairman, on the business of sending people through the East Block, I can't begin to understand how that happened. That goes absolutely counter to anything that we would have negotiated. When I say “negotiated”, I mean basically going over the arrangements for a particular day.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  If I may, as well Mr. Chairman, without wanting to get into a kind of culture of tattling, I do think that if this occurs, it's extremely helpful to get the name of the person and to report that back to the sergeant or to somebody at the table who will get the news back.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Thank you very much, Ms. Turmel. We really appreciate it. It is a good practical suggestion. Everyone can benefit from it.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  No. I understand and you are really kind to accept the fact that, given the age of many of the members of your caucus, people are sometimes surprised to see an MP instead of a staffer, for example. You are quite right to say that new MPs in particular don’t necessarily know that they don’t have the right to insist like that.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Thank you, Madam.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  If I may, Mr. Chairman, through you to Mr. Cullen, I wouldn't want anything we've said to suggest that we are in any way insisting on, or in any way running counter to that tradition that I think you rightly cite as having very serious origins and being something that needs to be respected.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Perhaps the sergeant can respond.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Certainly that is a very interesting suggestion, and it is something that the sergeant, the director of security, and I will look at perhaps so that there's even a kind of emergency number where you could send somebody who can identify the person who's being held up. To your point about wearing pins and ID, I have to say that members have been very cooperative.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Absolutely.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  No.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I'll ask the sergeant to confirm this. My understanding is that we reduce the number of points to which staff have access, but we don't want to reduce the number of points to which members have access. We want to give them freedom of movement so that they can come in one way or another.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  We haven't restricted the access of members to a single point. We err on the side of cooperation by members, who have a pin or an ID. Failing that, there's the booklet. In this case, there were officers who were not sufficiently briefed, or they were briefed and decided to be more zealous than....

Procedure and House Affairs committee  First of all let me apologize through you, Mr. Chairman, to Mr. Comartin. The incidents he raises—particularly the troubling one with Madame Laverdière, never mind the one with his luggage—there are absolutely no reasons for that. I mean that's just—dare one use the word—bullying, but certainly it's zealotry of the first water and there's no reason that should have occurred.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  I don't know if I may be so bold, Mr. Chairman, in light of this sort of heightened vigilance turning itself into a certain zealotry, the committee might want to consider calling the RCMP to have explanations for this. Because as the sergeant says—and I know this for a fact because I get regularly briefed on this—there are very close communications between the RCMP and the security forces, so that the RCMP ought to be perfectly prepared to deal with this situation.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  Frankly speaking—perhaps I'm just getting old or have too much of a pessimistic nature, with the glass always being half empty, in my view—I think that even with an amalgamated force you might run into this kind of thing. It's certainly not in any way malicious or systemic; it's basically accidental.